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Never. They've been "moving to proof of stake" for something like three years. The miners are making money off of them not moving to proof of stake. The mine

by jki275 6y ago

Never. They've been "moving to proof of stake" for something like three years. The miners are making money off of them not moving to proof of stake. The miners stop making money when they move to proof of stake. The only people who can actually allow the chain to move to proof of stake are the miners. Meanwhile, xtz and ada have been proof of stake since their inception, 3+ years already for both.

hobofan 6y ago
I mean I'm also disappointed by the slow pace of the transition, but they are clearly making progress towards it. They've been _planning_ to move to PoS for ~3 years, with a much too optimistic timeline. In the meantime a lot of companies working towards that have collapsed or refocused on other efforts, delaying the whole transition. It will probably take another ~3 years (my personal estimate) until the transition is reasonably finished and core parts of the ecosystems have migrated, but at least it's moving into the right direction.
- bhaak 6y ago
  > They've been _planning_ to move to PoS for ~3 years, with a much too optimistic timeline. PoS has always been on the roadmap even before their ICO. But yes, with a MUCH more optimistic timeline.
  - hobofan 6y ago
    Yes, but back then nothing more than the first few ideas towards their PoS existed IIRC. 2-3 years ago is when the Casper FFG paper was published and subsequently the architecture of Ethereum 2.0 (and the concrete 3-phase roadmap towards it) were published.
DennisP 6y ago
There is nothing the miners can do to stop the migration, any more than they can stop you from making your own fork of Ethereum and convincing your friends to run it. The miners can keep running the legacy version, and try to convince users and exchanges to stick with it. Given the massive community support for PoS, they're not likely to be very successful.
- jki275 6y ago
  You’re confused. They claim they are going to fork ETH to make a POS fork of it. Now the people claiming this are going to want you to believe that’s the “real” eth- but the miners may not agree. They have no incentive to do so. And yes, they can absolutely keep running the real chain and let the chips fall where they may. Given that course of action benefits them, and the other benefits Vitalik and his whale friends...
  - DennisP 6y ago
    That's...exactly what I just said. It doesn't matter what the miners believe, if the exchanges, applications, and users have moved to the PoS chain. Which is very likely to happen, given the community support for PoS, the scaling coming on that side at around the same time, and the fact that exchanges are already letting users earn returns by staking ETH, while the exchanges take a percentage of profits.
    - jki275 6y ago
      I think you are projecting your belief about ETH v3.0 or whatever it is onto a lot of people who don't agree with you. Vitalik et all have been talking about pos for years. Meanwhile a huge portion of the cryptocurrency space went there already (years ago) and left eth behind. POS isn't some new technology.
  - derivagral 6y ago
    As a random user of ETH: I'm going to go to the PoS fork because of the (implied) fee difference. ~$50 for a wire is going to kill the chain (imho), and I don't see miners incentivized to handle that.
    - jki275 6y ago
      It's an interesting hope. I'm not sure that's going to fix anything. Fees don't come from whether it's pow or pos, they come from volume and the need to prioritize transactions.
wyldfire 6y ago
Peercoin introduced proof-of-stake in 2012, and Nano/XRB used it at its inception in 2015. So, yes, cryptocoins have had PoS in production for quite a while.

by jki275 6y ago

hobofan 6y ago

I mean I'm also disappointed by the slow pace of the transition, but they are clearly making progress towards it. They've been _planning_ to move to PoS for ~3 years, with a much too optimistic timeline. In the meantime a lot of companies working towards that have collapsed or refocused on other efforts, delaying the whole transition. It will probably take another ~3 years (my personal estimate) until the transition is reasonably finished and core parts of the ecosystems have migrated, but at least it's moving into the right direction.

bhaak 6y ago
> They've been _planning_ to move to PoS for ~3 years, with a much too optimistic timeline. PoS has always been on the roadmap even before their ICO. But yes, with a MUCH more optimistic timeline.
- hobofan 6y ago
  Yes, but back then nothing more than the first few ideas towards their PoS existed IIRC. 2-3 years ago is when the Casper FFG paper was published and subsequently the architecture of Ethereum 2.0 (and the concrete 3-phase roadmap towards it) were published.

DennisP 6y ago

There is nothing the miners can do to stop the migration, any more than they can stop you from making your own fork of Ethereum and convincing your friends to run it. The miners can keep running the legacy version, and try to convince users and exchanges to stick with it. Given the massive community support for PoS, they're not likely to be very successful.

jki275 6y ago
You’re confused. They claim they are going to fork ETH to make a POS fork of it. Now the people claiming this are going to want you to believe that’s the “real” eth- but the miners may not agree. They have no incentive to do so. And yes, they can absolutely keep running the real chain and let the chips fall where they may. Given that course of action benefits them, and the other benefits Vitalik and his whale friends...
- DennisP 6y ago
  That's...exactly what I just said. It doesn't matter what the miners believe, if the exchanges, applications, and users have moved to the PoS chain. Which is very likely to happen, given the community support for PoS, the scaling coming on that side at around the same time, and the fact that exchanges are already letting users earn returns by staking ETH, while the exchanges take a percentage of profits.
  - jki275 6y ago
    I think you are projecting your belief about ETH v3.0 or whatever it is onto a lot of people who don't agree with you. Vitalik et all have been talking about pos for years. Meanwhile a huge portion of the cryptocurrency space went there already (years ago) and left eth behind. POS isn't some new technology.
- derivagral 6y ago
  As a random user of ETH: I'm going to go to the PoS fork because of the (implied) fee difference. ~$50 for a wire is going to kill the chain (imho), and I don't see miners incentivized to handle that.
  - jki275 6y ago
    It's an interesting hope. I'm not sure that's going to fix anything. Fees don't come from whether it's pow or pos, they come from volume and the need to prioritize transactions.

wyldfire 6y ago

Peercoin introduced proof-of-stake in 2012, and Nano/XRB used it at its inception in 2015. So, yes, cryptocoins have had PoS in production for quite a while.