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Reply All Is Having Its Own Reckoning Now
- swivelmaster 6y agoWell this is... extremely disappointing.
- fullstop 6y agoThat's putting it lightly.
- erwqwegavs 6y agoToday's daily reminder: Hunter Biden rapes kids.
- abnry 6y agoThe rules of cancel culture are that you can never be sensitive enough, you can never help cancel enough other people, you can never loudly proclaim the right views often enough... eventually you will get cancelled too for what happened 10 years ago.
- happytoexplain 6y agoYou're using absolute wording (i.e. exaggerating). Do you have a longer opinion? (I'm not disagreeing with your intention, whatever it may be - just your expression, which, giving you the benefit of the doubt, fails to communicate your intention).
- abnry 6y agoI am not exaggerating. There is nothing you can do to protect yourself from cancel culture. There is enough hypocrisy in every person to fail on that standard alone. But even if there isn't, there is always something "bad enough" to get yourself canceled over.
- hellomyguys 6y agoI think the way to "protect yourself" is just to admit wrongdoing and to hold yourself accountable in a way that helps things? To me, most of "cancel culture" is just asking people in positions of power to be held accountable, which isn't a bad thing and also doesn't always require the person to be banished from society.
- cycloptic 6y agoCan you elaborate what you mean by "cancel culture?" I have seen that term used so much for various things that the definition seems very vague and slippery. In this context, it seems to refer to someone acknowledging a personal failing and then voluntarily stepping down from a position?
- airpppp2 6y agoTake PJs tweet -- https://twitter.com/PJVogt/status/1362233699220258818 https://twitter.com/PJVogt/status/1362233699220258818 "I should have reflected on what it meant to not be on the same side of a movement largely led by young producers of color" That's basically it in a nutshell: the quality of a movement, of an argument, of an opinion is to be judged solely by the minority or oppressed attributes we can find in its supporters. It doesn't matter if PJ was against the unionizing for his own reasons whatever they might have been -- how they might have affected his benefits, financial reasons etc. His stance against the unionizing is viewed as a personal attack on the attributes of the supporters -- young people of colour. Put another way -- is there any objection that PJ could have raised to the unionizing efforts that would not have resulted in this same outcome? I doubt it.
- cycloptic 6y agoI don't see how you drew that conclusion and I am not sure what you're referring to or how that answers my question, at all. He explicitly says in that tweet that he did not intend to stop the unionization effort. Is there some additional context here? Edit: I read your comment again and I also am not quite sure what you're objecting to. If there was a movement by wheelchair-bound folks to convince a company to build wheelchair ramps, I certainly hope we would value their arguments over able-bodied folk, because the entire point is they're speaking out about what their experience as a minority person is, and what needs to be done for them to get equal access to a company space. Are you saying their attributes as a wheelchair-bound person wouldn't be important to making that argument?
- dwaltrip 6y agoThis felt a bit short on details. What did they do?
- jbob2000 6y agoExactly. It’s just a complaint about “the culture”. What exactly happened to make them dislike “the culture”?
- NRv9tR 6y agoThe original twitter thread is what kicked this off. https://twitter.com/eeddings/status/1361789128006897668 https://twitter.com/eeddings/status/1361789128006897668
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- dwaltrip 6y agoThanks, I missed that.
- jbob2000 6y agoWow this is dumb. People with a wildly inflated sense of importance destroying something nice. It’s a fucking cooking show and podcast, is this really the place to grind the diversity and unionization axe? The left eats itself again!
- cycloptic 6y agoWhy would employees of a cooking podcast be exempt from concerns about workplace discrimination? It seems they are an employer like most others.
- jbob2000 6y agoBecause there isn't workplace discrimination, it's just a bunch of people acting "concerned" and being ignored. What is the actual issue, aside from being "concerned"?
- cycloptic 6y agoHow do we know there isn't workplace discrimination or what the actual issue is? It seems that would be something only the company and their employees can answer.
- hellomyguys 6y agoSo your suggestion to people experience a toxic work environment is to just leave or do nothing? You can't speak out?
- jbob2000 6y agoWas it toxic? Or did one person feel it was toxic? From what I can tell, the union pleas are being ignored. That doesn't make a toxic workplace. It's unfortunate, but it's not toxic. My management ignored my pleas not to litter iframes all over the app and scrape shitloads of client data, but I don't consider that treatment as "toxic". I also didn't get a raise this year and my pleas were met with "everybody didn't get a raise, that's just the way this year went". So I'm really struggling to see how making pleas to your management = toxicity. What kind of bullshit victimization is that?
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- jjulius 6y agoAnd here I thought this was going to be about the "reply all" function of e-mail.
- alex_young 6y agoWow look at all of the comments about wokeness and cancel culture here. Look I like the show and listen to it often, but there seems to be a lot to the allegations in the linked Twitter thread from the article [0]. Maybe read that before posting more memes about the left eating its own? People in leadership actively trying to block formation of a union and badmouthing its leaders is pretty shitty looking, especially if they are then turning around and using their platform to call out others for doing the same thing. [0] https://twitter.com/eeddings/status/1361789128006897668?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet https://twitter.com/eeddings/status/1361789128006897668?ref_... Edit: grammar
- mdoms 6y agoI guess it doesn't help that the article contains literally not a shred of detail about what the offenders allegedly did. The only reference is: > contributing to a “toxic dynamic at Gimlet” that was “near identical” to the Bon Appétit culture depicted in the miniseries. Sorry, Vulture, but I'm not going to listen to an entire podcast series to try to decipher what you're getting at here. So I have to try to infer what's going on here, and to me the first thing that comes to my mind when you see these kinds of mass resignations and vague, overwrought apologies with language like "I don’t think anyone needs me taking up space right now" is the toxic crusade for ideological purity that's commonplace in the circles Reply All travel in.
- coffeedoughnuts 6y ago> you can never be sensitive enough > just a complaint about “the culture” > this is dumb ... is this really the place to grind the diversity and unionization axe > race to the bottom for wokeness It's a workplace dispute that has become public because the show they produce is critiquing another workplace that had a similar dispute. The hypocrisy involved there is the reason for this being reported so widely. Every workplace has a dispute at some point and sometimes these disputes result in people moving within or away from the company. The parties at Gimlet involved surely could see the parallels between the story and themselves, but didn't address this publicly in the first episode so it strikes me that they either hoped it wouldn't come up or didn't feel it was hypocritical, both of which feel naive and this result would have been avoided if they just addressed this obviously-forthcoming controversy head-on. But sure, paint this up as "woke-millienials-coming-to-cancel-your-life-choices" if it makes you feel better. That's not what's happening, but it sounds like maybe you need it to be.
- abnry 6y ago> a workplace dispute It was a dispute about unions and how POC felt in the workplace, according to the person who spoke up. You can't get more woke than that.
- hellomyguys 6y agoThe Civil Rights Movement was a very woke movement I guess with this line of thinking.
- coffeedoughnuts 6y agoNot sure if this is true wherever you're from, but here in the UK unions are very commonplace all over different industries and have been a recognised part of society for quite some time now. The same with our laws on racial discrimination in the workplace. Not sure what your (or any) definition of 'woke' is, but I gathered it was a fairly new phenomenon that is often used as an excuse to belittle people who hold different views to your own (see also: 'political correctness') - I hadn't realised that my 60-something union-rep father was so woke! I'll call and let him know!
- happytoexplain 6y agoEvery time you feel the urge to gleefully declare that the left/right is attacking itself, eating its own, or other metaphors, remember that millions of people in some self-identified social/political group not disagreeing with each other is a very, very bad sign. People are, and should be, individuals.
- samirillian 6y agoSurprise surprise, happened after the Spotify acquisition. The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.
- jszymborski 6y agoWhile I'm no fan of the consolidation of decentralised podcasts into one silo, most of the issue came to light while Gimlet was unionizing and before the Spotify acquision.
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- tryonenow 6y ago>I deeply failed as an ally during the unionization era at Gimlet,” he wrote. “I did not intend to stop the unionization effort, and I am very glad it succeeded … I’m not done working, but I don’t think anyone needs me taking up space right now. This reads like a forced apology from someone who was bullied into submission by ideologues. I think language like "ally" and "taking up space" is toxic because it implies that non-minorities are forbidden from dissent and participation.
- altncatchfire 6y agoI disagree on this regard. According to the Twitter thread (which seems to be our only primary source here), PJ apologized last fall, saying "You were right about the union." [1] As for the language of the apology, you propose a very subjective reading of the text. "Taking up space" seems valid here as it concerns the man in the middle of this event. Instead of being "forbidden from dissent", it seems he already knew he was on the wrong side months ago and is simply attempting to focus the conversation towards more important things than himself. [1] https://twitter.com/eeddings/status/1361790804046602240 https://twitter.com/eeddings/status/1361790804046602240
- swivelmaster 6y agoHe can be kind of a sad sack on the show so “taking up space” really does sound like how he talks. I’ve heard almost every episode so... yeah.
- jgalt212 6y ago> It involves honest and sometimes difficult conversations. These conversations are only OK if the person feeling the honestly and difficulty is either higher up to food chain or white (and preferably both).
- zwieback 6y agoI was a huge fan of the Bon Appetit Youtube channel and thought it was sad they self destructed, it seems like it could have been avoided easily. I wasn't even aware of the Reply-all coverage of the BA implosion, it's ironic that I'm now going to listen to it due to HN discussion of the Gimlet scandal.
- mocnfrieff 6y agoI don't condone the way PJ insulted Eric but these two tweets, both by Eric, are sus: 1: "I’ve talked to PJ multiple times asking him to do more to contribute to diversity efforts at the company. Asking him to join the diversity group. To lend a voice when I spoke up at staff meetings. Anything to show the staff that he cared about the issue." 2: "They weren’t obligated to support me, diversity efforts at Gimlet, or the union. " PJ might have handled this extremely poorly but reading between the lines here it sounds like Eric and POC at Gimlet saw RA as having this island-of-power within the company and basically said "hey, we want change at Gimlet and we expect you to use some of this power to help us achieve it." That is maybe the extent to which I think this parallels the BA story AT ALL. What is the Gimlet analogue of the "BA took these recipes by PoC and gave them to white reporters who stripped them of any culture" angle?