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This sounds like dangerous clickbait. It's entirely expected that someone whose job it is to study the effect of drugs would have a much better understanding o

This sounds like dangerous clickbait. It's entirely expected that someone whose job it is to study the effect of drugs would have a much better understanding of how to not become addicted His assertion the 70% of all drug users including alcohol and prescription users aren't addicted if anything seems extremely low to me. I'd say the vast majority of my friends drink alcohol and are more than likely on prescription drugs but I don't think any of them are addicts Which means that the other less common drugs must be a lot more addictive to bring the number down to 70% I get the point the article is trying to make, but its headline and opening paragraphs frame it more as a "decriminalise all drugs" article

np- 6y ago
While I do agree with your underlying point that it's likely less common drugs are dangerous, I just want to say that a lot of alcohol addiction and abuse is often completely hidden in plain sight, due to social and cultural acceptance and the way it's portrayed in media.
SamBam 6y ago
> His assertion the 70% of all drug users including alcohol and prescription users aren't addicted if anything seems extremely low to me. I'd say the vast majority of my friends drink alcohol and are more than likely on prescription drugs but I don't think any of them are addicts Actually, I'm not sure. 30% of alcohol drinkers being addicted might be roughly right (though surprising to me as well). In the US, 50% of Americans hardly drink at all (under 0.15 drinks/week). But 10% of Americans drink a staggering 75 drinks a week, or over ten drinks a day every day (where a drink is a can of beer, glass of wine, or equivalent). [1] Of course you can't determine from that alone whether those people are clinically addicted, but it sound reasonable to me that most are. Further, probably some proportion of people in the other groups are also addicted, but not drinking nearly as much. So that's 10%, and only 50% of Americans are drinking at all, so that's 20% of drinkers are drinking 10+ drinks a day, and some unknown proportion have alcohol problems while drinking less. 1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think...
- ChrisRR 6y ago
  I'll admit that is an insane amount that I wasn't expecting, but something about those numbers just feels off. Like 10 drinks a day? Many people don't even drink that much water Maybe we're getting a very different view of the US from the UK, but despite all of America's flaws and how weak the beer is, it seems so unexpected to me that 1/10 of people are opening a new drink every 90 minutes and somehow managing to hold down a job to be able to afford such a habit.
  - flatiron 6y ago
    if someone drinks from 5pm-10pm one can of beer every 30 minutes thats 10 drinks. they could easily wake up at 7am, hold down a job and rinse and repeat. a 30 rack of miller light (my beer of choice) is $22 which is 73 cents a beer so thats ~$7.50 a day on beer. obviously there are cheaper routes (buying $10 handles of vodka for instance). so at least in america, price really isn't a factor here. and holding down a job most likely isn't a factor since they are stone cold sober from when they wake until 5pm. i assume a lot of people silently live like this sadly
    - ChrisRR 6y ago
      Even if you ignore the price and how fast drinking once every half hour for 5 hours straight seems, that's 13.86 units of alcohol every day. So 10% of the population are in a state of being permanently hungover? It just seems odd that in the UK, binge drinking is considered to be an issue, and yet a significant percentage of the US population is drinking the equivalent of a night out on a daily basis.
      - jboog 6y ago
        When you're a high-functioning alcohol like we're talking you get to the point you can down a 12 pack of beer in a night and feel relatively fine the next morning. Maybe a slight headache or mild hangover but nothing like the bender hangovers non-alcoholics have where they are bedridden most of the day. I've since cut back a lot but in my worst post-college days I could drink the equivalent of 8-10 drinks in a night and feel perfectly fine the next morning as long as I got a decent amount of sleep.
leetcrew 6y ago
> His assertion the 70% of all drug users including alcohol and prescription users aren't addicted if anything seems extremely low to me. I'd say the vast majority of my friends drink alcohol and are more than likely on prescription drugs but I don't think any of them are addicts > Which means that the other less common drugs must be a lot more addictive to bring the number down to 70% I don't think your sample of friends is enough to support this kind of conclusion. n is small, there is likely selection bias at play, and you can't have perfect knowledge of what your friends do when you're not around. it's not uncommon for addicts to be able to keep it together for a few hours of socializing. I had a friend in college who would only have a single glass of wine when he was visiting family. for a while, they thought he was very responsible or just not that interested in drinking. the reality was if he had more than one, he wouldn't be able to stop. back at school, he got plastered every day and eventually failed out and had to go to rehab. addicts can be very good at hiding things until they hit the tipping point where their life falls apart completely.
dariusj18 6y ago
This is like the textbook overconfidence that addicts have. They all think they have a complete understanding of their body and the chemicals they use.
- nobleach 6y ago
  A few years ago, right here on HackerNews, I made some comment about heroin being extremely dangerous and addictive. I had a gentleman with a Throwaway account come at me with a "cool story bro, but I use heroin often, and I hold down a high-paying job" response. Basically, he told me that I'm an idiot and I should stop spreading FUD. I looked at his other threads like a year later, and the poor dude, sure enough is hopelessly hooked. I'm never one to say, "I told you so", especially not to someone who's now in such dire circumstances... but, WHY do people think that THEY are going to be the one to beat the odds? If you use a horribly addictive substance, don't be surprised when you become...addicted! The risk/reward is just too big.
  - tmp-20210218 6y ago
    probably me, although i can't remember the password to that account, so you'll have to take my word for it. but yeah, from a perspective of a couple years on, heroin addiction is fucking terrible. i mean, heroin's nice and all, but i was an idiot ;)
    - nobleach 6y ago
      Dude, I'm just glad to hear you're alive! Hope you're doing well.
      - tmp-20210218 6y ago
        thanks, random internet friend, you too! things like this are what makes life good every now and again...
- biolurker1 6y ago
  Exactly and this spills over to gambling too. All addictions are the same and people try to convince everyone that they have been thinking about it wrong.
n4r9 6y ago
> Which means that the other less common drugs must be a lot more addictive to bring the number down to 70% There's a confounding variable: the difficulty of obtaining drugs vs alcohol. This causes a selection bias and means that a higher proportion of heroin users are addicts than otherwise would be. You can't necessarily deduce that heroin is more addictive from that (although there are other ways I'm sure).

np- 6y ago

While I do agree with your underlying point that it's likely less common drugs are dangerous, I just want to say that a lot of alcohol addiction and abuse is often completely hidden in plain sight, due to social and cultural acceptance and the way it's portrayed in media.

SamBam 6y ago

> His assertion the 70% of all drug users including alcohol and prescription users aren't addicted if anything seems extremely low to me. I'd say the vast majority of my friends drink alcohol and are more than likely on prescription drugs but I don't think any of them are addicts Actually, I'm not sure. 30% of alcohol drinkers being addicted might be roughly right (though surprising to me as well). In the US, 50% of Americans hardly drink at all (under 0.15 drinks/week). But 10% of Americans drink a staggering 75 drinks a week, or over ten drinks a day every day (where a drink is a can of beer, glass of wine, or equivalent). [1] Of course you can't determine from that alone whether those people are clinically addicted, but it sound reasonable to me that most are. Further, probably some proportion of people in the other groups are also addicted, but not drinking nearly as much. So that's 10%, and only 50% of Americans are drinking at all, so that's 20% of drinkers are drinking 10+ drinks a day, and some unknown proportion have alcohol problems while drinking less. 1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think...

ChrisRR 6y ago
I'll admit that is an insane amount that I wasn't expecting, but something about those numbers just feels off. Like 10 drinks a day? Many people don't even drink that much water Maybe we're getting a very different view of the US from the UK, but despite all of America's flaws and how weak the beer is, it seems so unexpected to me that 1/10 of people are opening a new drink every 90 minutes and somehow managing to hold down a job to be able to afford such a habit.
- flatiron 6y ago
  if someone drinks from 5pm-10pm one can of beer every 30 minutes thats 10 drinks. they could easily wake up at 7am, hold down a job and rinse and repeat. a 30 rack of miller light (my beer of choice) is $22 which is 73 cents a beer so thats ~$7.50 a day on beer. obviously there are cheaper routes (buying $10 handles of vodka for instance). so at least in america, price really isn't a factor here. and holding down a job most likely isn't a factor since they are stone cold sober from when they wake until 5pm. i assume a lot of people silently live like this sadly
  - ChrisRR 6y ago
    Even if you ignore the price and how fast drinking once every half hour for 5 hours straight seems, that's 13.86 units of alcohol every day. So 10% of the population are in a state of being permanently hungover? It just seems odd that in the UK, binge drinking is considered to be an issue, and yet a significant percentage of the US population is drinking the equivalent of a night out on a daily basis.
    - jboog 6y ago
      When you're a high-functioning alcohol like we're talking you get to the point you can down a 12 pack of beer in a night and feel relatively fine the next morning. Maybe a slight headache or mild hangover but nothing like the bender hangovers non-alcoholics have where they are bedridden most of the day. I've since cut back a lot but in my worst post-college days I could drink the equivalent of 8-10 drinks in a night and feel perfectly fine the next morning as long as I got a decent amount of sleep.

leetcrew 6y ago

> His assertion the 70% of all drug users including alcohol and prescription users aren't addicted if anything seems extremely low to me. I'd say the vast majority of my friends drink alcohol and are more than likely on prescription drugs but I don't think any of them are addicts > Which means that the other less common drugs must be a lot more addictive to bring the number down to 70% I don't think your sample of friends is enough to support this kind of conclusion. n is small, there is likely selection bias at play, and you can't have perfect knowledge of what your friends do when you're not around. it's not uncommon for addicts to be able to keep it together for a few hours of socializing. I had a friend in college who would only have a single glass of wine when he was visiting family. for a while, they thought he was very responsible or just not that interested in drinking. the reality was if he had more than one, he wouldn't be able to stop. back at school, he got plastered every day and eventually failed out and had to go to rehab. addicts can be very good at hiding things until they hit the tipping point where their life falls apart completely.

dariusj18 6y ago

This is like the textbook overconfidence that addicts have. They all think they have a complete understanding of their body and the chemicals they use.

nobleach 6y ago
A few years ago, right here on HackerNews, I made some comment about heroin being extremely dangerous and addictive. I had a gentleman with a Throwaway account come at me with a "cool story bro, but I use heroin often, and I hold down a high-paying job" response. Basically, he told me that I'm an idiot and I should stop spreading FUD. I looked at his other threads like a year later, and the poor dude, sure enough is hopelessly hooked. I'm never one to say, "I told you so", especially not to someone who's now in such dire circumstances... but, WHY do people think that THEY are going to be the one to beat the odds? If you use a horribly addictive substance, don't be surprised when you become...addicted! The risk/reward is just too big.
- tmp-20210218 6y ago
  probably me, although i can't remember the password to that account, so you'll have to take my word for it. but yeah, from a perspective of a couple years on, heroin addiction is fucking terrible. i mean, heroin's nice and all, but i was an idiot ;)
  - nobleach 6y ago
    Dude, I'm just glad to hear you're alive! Hope you're doing well.
    - tmp-20210218 6y ago
      thanks, random internet friend, you too! things like this are what makes life good every now and again...
biolurker1 6y ago
Exactly and this spills over to gambling too. All addictions are the same and people try to convince everyone that they have been thinking about it wrong.

n4r9 6y ago

> Which means that the other less common drugs must be a lot more addictive to bring the number down to 70% There's a confounding variable: the difficulty of obtaining drugs vs alcohol. This causes a selection bias and means that a higher proportion of heroin users are addicts than otherwise would be. You can't necessarily deduce that heroin is more addictive from that (although there are other ways I'm sure).