4 ms·

Semi-related fun fact: in French, the word "anglo-saxon" is commonly used to refer to the anglosphere, its people, or its way of doing things. It has a neutral

by Bakary 6y ago

Semi-related fun fact: in French, the word "anglo-saxon" is commonly used to refer to the anglosphere, its people, or its way of doing things. It has a neutral connotation, although francophones will inevitably tend to use it in negative statements once in a while ;) This often creates amusing misunderstandings when French speakers drop that word in an English conversation without realizing that it sounds not only weirder but also loaded with extra baggage in that context.

mancerayder 6y ago
It refers to Americans and Australians too, to make things worse. They should be saying Anglophones.
- cambalache 6y ago
  It is used the same way in Spanish. A cultured native speaker is aware of the difference but as OP said it is sometimes used in a pejorative sense to indicate than in the Anglophone countries is usually the WASP (emphasis in WAS) portion who holds the power and in is those portion were many of the white supremacy ideology and policies arised.
- Bakary 6y ago
  The word doesn't just refer to the language but to a certain way of thinking that is recognizable and common to all the anglosphere cultures and nations. Using "anglophone" would not work.
  - mancerayder 6y ago
    I'm familiar with it and the context, a mix of political and cultural. But in France older people still call Indians 'Hindus' despite having the largest Muslim population in the world and other religious groups. Anglo-Saxon refers to a people that ruled England when they invaded Britain in the Middle Ages, and dominated politically up to the present. The Irish, Welsh, etc in Britain, the many immigrants there and in the US and Australia, would probably find it an outdated term. WASP is one we use in the US for something similar, referring to cultural and academic institutions and such, but I feel like it's fallen out of favor.
    - Bakary 6y ago
      It's partially tied to ethnic affiliation, but that is not an essential aspect of the term. For instance, Trevor Noah's comments on the French football team would definitely be referred to as an anglo-saxon perspective even though the man himself would not be considered as such by anglophones since the term refers almost exclusively to ethnicity in English. Although the average Frenchman could always stand to learn more about the anglosphere, the usage of the word anglo-saxon in French isn't borne out of ignorance of cultural nuance, but is often invoked and defined in contrast to French or French-inspired values. As such, the term is still popular because it's still highly relevant: whenever there's some kerfuffle about secularism or some other salient clash of values, the anglosphere tends to present the same predictable range of responses whether they are Anglo-Canadians or Irish, POC or WASP, immigrant or Baskerville. Naturally, people from the anglosphere don't enjoy being conceptually lumped together by outsiders (leading to the misunderstandings mentioned earlier) but in this case it's not just casual prejudice on the part of the French (even though it no doubt plays a role) but a recurrent difference in values that has real consequences. In my view, it is as real a concept as "the West" is for example.
      - mancerayder 6y ago
        >As such, the term is still popular because it's still highly relevant: whenever there's some kerfuffle about secularism or some other salient clash of values, the anglosphere tends to present the same predictable range of responses whether they are Anglo-Canadians or Irish, POC or WASP, immigrant or Baskerville. That's too strong a claim. It probably was more true in 1960 than in 2020, given how much has changed. For example, the prudeness was a common stereotype of both Americans and Brits, but it's changed much since those days. The generations are so different from one another, it's quite a shock to many. And let's not get started with cities versus towns. In cities, things are so international they (cities) often have similar attitudes with one another across national boundaries. Subjectively, having lived in the UK, I often felt there was more in common between the British and the French than either with Americans. Friendships, attitudes to strangers, and romantic relationships. Religiosity is more common in the US. I'm not talking politics here - what's an example of this commonality of Anglo-Saxon culture or kurfuffle that clashes with French culture? Political correctness? Religiosity ?

by Bakary 6y ago

mancerayder 6y ago

It refers to Americans and Australians too, to make things worse. They should be saying Anglophones.

cambalache 6y ago
It is used the same way in Spanish. A cultured native speaker is aware of the difference but as OP said it is sometimes used in a pejorative sense to indicate than in the Anglophone countries is usually the WASP (emphasis in WAS) portion who holds the power and in is those portion were many of the white supremacy ideology and policies arised.
Bakary 6y ago
The word doesn't just refer to the language but to a certain way of thinking that is recognizable and common to all the anglosphere cultures and nations. Using "anglophone" would not work.
- mancerayder 6y ago
  I'm familiar with it and the context, a mix of political and cultural. But in France older people still call Indians 'Hindus' despite having the largest Muslim population in the world and other religious groups. Anglo-Saxon refers to a people that ruled England when they invaded Britain in the Middle Ages, and dominated politically up to the present. The Irish, Welsh, etc in Britain, the many immigrants there and in the US and Australia, would probably find it an outdated term. WASP is one we use in the US for something similar, referring to cultural and academic institutions and such, but I feel like it's fallen out of favor.
  - Bakary 6y ago
    It's partially tied to ethnic affiliation, but that is not an essential aspect of the term. For instance, Trevor Noah's comments on the French football team would definitely be referred to as an anglo-saxon perspective even though the man himself would not be considered as such by anglophones since the term refers almost exclusively to ethnicity in English. Although the average Frenchman could always stand to learn more about the anglosphere, the usage of the word anglo-saxon in French isn't borne out of ignorance of cultural nuance, but is often invoked and defined in contrast to French or French-inspired values. As such, the term is still popular because it's still highly relevant: whenever there's some kerfuffle about secularism or some other salient clash of values, the anglosphere tends to present the same predictable range of responses whether they are Anglo-Canadians or Irish, POC or WASP, immigrant or Baskerville. Naturally, people from the anglosphere don't enjoy being conceptually lumped together by outsiders (leading to the misunderstandings mentioned earlier) but in this case it's not just casual prejudice on the part of the French (even though it no doubt plays a role) but a recurrent difference in values that has real consequences. In my view, it is as real a concept as "the West" is for example.
    - mancerayder 6y ago
      >As such, the term is still popular because it's still highly relevant: whenever there's some kerfuffle about secularism or some other salient clash of values, the anglosphere tends to present the same predictable range of responses whether they are Anglo-Canadians or Irish, POC or WASP, immigrant or Baskerville. That's too strong a claim. It probably was more true in 1960 than in 2020, given how much has changed. For example, the prudeness was a common stereotype of both Americans and Brits, but it's changed much since those days. The generations are so different from one another, it's quite a shock to many. And let's not get started with cities versus towns. In cities, things are so international they (cities) often have similar attitudes with one another across national boundaries. Subjectively, having lived in the UK, I often felt there was more in common between the British and the French than either with Americans. Friendships, attitudes to strangers, and romantic relationships. Religiosity is more common in the US. I'm not talking politics here - what's an example of this commonality of Anglo-Saxon culture or kurfuffle that clashes with French culture? Political correctness? Religiosity ?