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> “My heroin use is as rational as my alcohol use” What an incredibly dangerous idea to promote. Do not mess with opioids. You think you are in control, until

by umvi 6y ago

> “My heroin use is as rational as my alcohol use” What an incredibly dangerous idea to promote. Do not mess with opioids. You think you are in control, until you are not.

lostgame 6y ago
Ugh. Come on. Be part of the solution, not the problem. We should be promoting safe use and harm reduction education, not these bullshit blanket statements such as 'do not mess with opioids'/'say no to drugs', and stop using them quick. Otherwise the people who inevitably will/do use, only hear and have only heard, 'don't do it to start' or get ostracized instead of getting the help they need or the education they need to know when they are overdoing it or not in control any more. We also need more clinics and support for safely quitting or managing drugs and tools for it similar to what we have for tobacco. Shamefully, here in Canada, some of these clinics in Vancouver are getting shut down, rather than more of them popping up, during the worst opioid crisis this country has ever seen. These closures are a direct result of a 'don't ever do/touch drugs' policy and the stigma and ostracization that come with it. Speaking from experience...education is better than 'don't'. I have had friends who have died from using drugs, and I have many, many friends who are regular users but not abusers - pull an insane variety of different full-time jobs. (And well!) The huge difference between these two groups of people for me is education (for instance, preexisting mental health conditions that would be made worse by a particular substance and the knowledge to avoid it), and having a support system, etc.. It is fascinating and inspiring that someone has chosen to put themselves in the very vulnerable position of coming out about their personal use, and I believe the intention is to help remove the stigma around drug use, so education can be bettered. :) Edit: Maybe better to say 'Drugs can be extremely harmful and addictive. If you choose to use them, please be sure you are educated, safe, and have someone nearby.' In fact, that doesn't seem dissimilar to the surgeon general warnings on cigarette packs, anyway. What kind of warning labels will we see on cocaine, heroin, etc - in countries where its sale will inevitably be legalized? These are the kinds of statements we should be making rather than 'just stay away from opioids.'
- umvi 6y ago
  > We should be promoting safe use and harm reduction education for existing users. We should not tempt people who would have otherwise never used them with false fantasies that they will be able to dabble and remain in control without getting addicted
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- omginternets 6y ago
  >We should be promoting safe use and harm reduction education Right, but this is harm-denial.
balozi 6y ago
Alcohol is not any better.
- whatshisface 6y ago
  Metaphysically maybe but physically, not really.
  - ajkdhcb2 6y ago
    Alcohol literally destroys your brain and gives you dementia. It is objectively more physically damaging than opiate usage.
    - omginternets 6y ago
      This is dose-dependent. You're comparing alcohol abuse to heroine use. That's not a fair comparison. You should also examine the proportion of heroin "users" who become abusers. You should then do the same comparison for alcohol use. I'm willing to entertain the notion that the risks of heroin are overblown. I'm even willing to believe it. What seems entirely unsupported by evidence is the notion that alcohol and heroin are in remotely the same league.
      - ajkdhcb2 6y ago
        Look at the data on those who have chronic pain: they are prescribed opiates at high dosages daily (equivalent to extreme abuse), and doctors think this is acceptable. Heroin is essentially just an opiate. They do not show effects as bad as life-long alcohol users, nor obviously abusers. A lot of socially acceptable alcohol use would be called abuse if society was fair about it.
        omginternets 6y ago
        >they are prescribed opiates at high dosages daily (equivalent to extreme abuse), and doctors think this is acceptable That's an orthogonal concern. That being said, I don't understand your reasoning. Firstly, this is opioid abuse. Granted, the responsibility for this abuse falls on the prescriber rather than the user, but it is nevertheless a pathological pattern of use. Secondly, you've substituted "heroin" for "pharmaceutical-grade opiates" in your argument. The irony is that this supports my position more than yours because it demonstrates that the slope is particularly slippery, even with medical-grade opioids. This point bears repeating: the addictive and toxicological potential of opioid medicine is greater than alcohol. The trend is even less in your favor when we return to the topic at hand: heroin. I share your concern about opioid-based medication, but this argues against your point.

by umvi 6y ago

> “My heroin use is as rational as my alcohol use” What an incredibly dangerous idea to promote. Do not mess with opioids. You think you are in control, until you are not.

lostgame 6y ago

Ugh. Come on. Be part of the solution, not the problem. We should be promoting safe use and harm reduction education, not these bullshit blanket statements such as 'do not mess with opioids'/'say no to drugs', and stop using them quick. Otherwise the people who inevitably will/do use, only hear and have only heard, 'don't do it to start' or get ostracized instead of getting the help they need or the education they need to know when they are overdoing it or not in control any more. We also need more clinics and support for safely quitting or managing drugs and tools for it similar to what we have for tobacco. Shamefully, here in Canada, some of these clinics in Vancouver are getting shut down, rather than more of them popping up, during the worst opioid crisis this country has ever seen. These closures are a direct result of a 'don't ever do/touch drugs' policy and the stigma and ostracization that come with it. Speaking from experience...education is better than 'don't'. I have had friends who have died from using drugs, and I have many, many friends who are regular users but not abusers - pull an insane variety of different full-time jobs. (And well!) The huge difference between these two groups of people for me is education (for instance, preexisting mental health conditions that would be made worse by a particular substance and the knowledge to avoid it), and having a support system, etc.. It is fascinating and inspiring that someone has chosen to put themselves in the very vulnerable position of coming out about their personal use, and I believe the intention is to help remove the stigma around drug use, so education can be bettered. :) Edit: Maybe better to say 'Drugs can be extremely harmful and addictive. If you choose to use them, please be sure you are educated, safe, and have someone nearby.' In fact, that doesn't seem dissimilar to the surgeon general warnings on cigarette packs, anyway. What kind of warning labels will we see on cocaine, heroin, etc - in countries where its sale will inevitably be legalized? These are the kinds of statements we should be making rather than 'just stay away from opioids.'

umvi 6y ago
> We should be promoting safe use and harm reduction education for existing users. We should not tempt people who would have otherwise never used them with false fantasies that they will be able to dabble and remain in control without getting addicted
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
omginternets 6y ago
>We should be promoting safe use and harm reduction education Right, but this is harm-denial.

balozi 6y ago

Alcohol is not any better.

whatshisface 6y ago
Metaphysically maybe but physically, not really.
- ajkdhcb2 6y ago
  Alcohol literally destroys your brain and gives you dementia. It is objectively more physically damaging than opiate usage.
  - omginternets 6y ago
    This is dose-dependent. You're comparing alcohol abuse to heroine use. That's not a fair comparison. You should also examine the proportion of heroin "users" who become abusers. You should then do the same comparison for alcohol use. I'm willing to entertain the notion that the risks of heroin are overblown. I'm even willing to believe it. What seems entirely unsupported by evidence is the notion that alcohol and heroin are in remotely the same league.
    - ajkdhcb2 6y ago
      Look at the data on those who have chronic pain: they are prescribed opiates at high dosages daily (equivalent to extreme abuse), and doctors think this is acceptable. Heroin is essentially just an opiate. They do not show effects as bad as life-long alcohol users, nor obviously abusers. A lot of socially acceptable alcohol use would be called abuse if society was fair about it.
      - omginternets 6y ago
        >they are prescribed opiates at high dosages daily (equivalent to extreme abuse), and doctors think this is acceptable That's an orthogonal concern. That being said, I don't understand your reasoning. Firstly, this is opioid abuse. Granted, the responsibility for this abuse falls on the prescriber rather than the user, but it is nevertheless a pathological pattern of use. Secondly, you've substituted "heroin" for "pharmaceutical-grade opiates" in your argument. The irony is that this supports my position more than yours because it demonstrates that the slope is particularly slippery, even with medical-grade opioids. This point bears repeating: the addictive and toxicological potential of opioid medicine is greater than alcohol. The trend is even less in your favor when we return to the topic at hand: heroin. I share your concern about opioid-based medication, but this argues against your point.