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> Hart strives to “present a more realistic image of the typical drug user: a responsible professional who happens to use drugs in his pursuit of happiness.” I

by yladiz 6y ago

> Hart strives to “present a more realistic image of the typical drug user: a responsible professional who happens to use drugs in his pursuit of happiness.” I think this is likely wrong. I guess it partly depends on the definition of a "drug user" (like, does it include alcohol drinkers) but I would be very surprised if most heroin users are responsible professionals - how can you do anything when you're high on heroin? I'd go so far as to say that saying people that are addicted are "typically responsible professionals" is a little disrespectful and downplays the reality of those that are actually afflicted with addiction, as it feels like it's just pushing the "burden" onto the drug user, which reinforces negative stereotypes and makes it harder to get people on the side of treating addiction as a health issue and not a moral failing.

avisser 6y ago
> how can you do anything when you're high on heroin? It is a straw-man to assume that drug users are high during work. There are plenty of hours in the day. Erowid puts the duration of a heroin high at 2-4 hours. https://erowid.org/chemicals/heroin/heroin_basics.shtml https://erowid.org/chemicals/heroin/heroin_basics.shtml
- swirepe 6y ago
  8 hours for sleeping 8 hours for getting your $80 for the day to get high 4 hours to get high 4 hours for...I don't know, working on a novel or something
rkachowski 6y ago
From my reading, alcohol drinkers are absolutely included in his definition of a "drug user" and the exact same objection would apply - how can you do anything when you're drunk on alcohol?
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  > how can you do anything when you're drunk on alcohol? The statistics for alcohol consumption in the Nordic countries in the 19th century are staggering, adult males were basically drinking hard liquor all day every day as they went about their work. Alcohol definitely has its effects on the body and is a huge safety risk, but apparently men were still able regardless to run their farms, build the buildings they needed, chop wood, etc.
  - wingerlang 6y ago
    On the other hand the government had to step in and make alcohol restrictions because of the abuse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systembolaget#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systembolaget#History
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- detritus 6y ago
  I've actually often used booze to power beyond sense and get extra work done at the end of a day, however there is a HUGE proviso - it has to be design work, or stuff that I know inside out and could do blind-folded anyway. Anything to do with programming or logic and I became a useless head-scratching moron, going around in ever tighter circles of stupidity. Design work though? There was many a time I awoke the next morning and had a dread-chill panic thinking I'd need to get some project done, only to find I'd not only done it the night before, but I'd actually not hate it. Which, as a designer at the time, was high praise. Sure, there might be some rough edges or stupid typos, but the overall work would be Great, by my standards at least, so after a quick review, would be ready to go. I used to refer to it as 'free work'. I guess letting go is more of a useful trait in design. I'd not recommend it for doing work in critically-important fields, obviously! - ed last line
  - Uberphallus 6y ago
    Same. I tried coding tipsy, especially after colleague farewell meals, and I never did anything good. At most I gave funny code reviews to people. For most of my life I also cooked sober. But when I started cooking tipsy, I began preparing meals I could have never believed I made myself. My current lasagna recipe is an absolute bomb and it's been perfected over a dozen drunken cooking sessions. Even Italians asked me for the recipe.
    - detritus 6y ago
      Oh! Don't get me started on tipsy cooking. Main problem there is replicability. My partner often gets annoyed at me when she asks if I can cook some nice thing I'd recently made, only for me to umm and aaah because I didn't write down the exact ingredients... .
nicoburns 6y ago
I've never taken heroin, but I've heard that it is quite possible to work while high on it. Partly because the high isn't quite like other drugs that give you a high. Which is apparently one of the reasons why it's so easy to become addicted: at first you can feel pretty normal and competent while on it.
throwaway_du 6y ago
I used drugs recreationally until I had children. During this time I knew many colleagues that used drugs every week. Some used amphetamines and mdma at parties. Some used morphine substitutes day time during the weekends, and on a few occasions some were high during work hours (the last few hours on friday). They were very productive. Just because you use a hard drug does not mean that you have to take a large dose. I would argue that most people will be more productive with a low dose of amphetamines. On the other hand, I think no one codes better with alcohol. It all depends on the drug. For several years I made a living playing poker, and I played a lot better with morphine in my system. It made me more patient and focused. I even tracked my results in different databases (with pokertracker) to compare my results while high. I made almost 10% more while high, and this is over hundreds of hours played.
- treeman79 6y ago
  Bio parents of my adopted child used them recreationally. They used them all through kids childhood. Really screwed em up. Every single person in group homes and foster system had same sort of tale.
  - pksebben 6y ago
    Does that mean the substances are to blame? IMHO, people who would create a responsibility for themselves (child) and then ignore that responsibility have problems above and beyond how they recreate. Their indulgence is a symptom, not a cause.
mellavora 6y ago
Friend of mine is from Pakistan. He says that the guys who drive heavy trucks through the mountains always take heroin first. Helps them keep calm when navigating a road which has sections only marginally wider than the truck, with a 500m drop on one side. I'm not promoting DUI (lost too many friends that way, mostly from OTHER people DUI'ing and hitting them), just saying that there are professions where the people engaged think that dulling the fear/panic response is worth the reduced reaction times.
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  Are you sure he’s not talking about charas?
- biolurker1 6y ago
  That must be the definition of urban myth
jimmaswell 6y ago
> but I would be very surprised if most heroin users are responsible professionals - how can you do anything when you're high on heroin? The rock scene of the 80s comes to mind. Lots of them did it af the time while they were touring.
- waterhouse 6y ago
  The Guns N' Roses song "Mr. Brownstone" is essentially about this (brownstone being slang for heroin). It seems it worked for some time, but eventually... I get up around seven Get out of bed around nine ... I used to do a little but a little wouldn't do it So the little got more and more I just keep tryin' to get a little better Said a little better than before ... Now I get up around whenever I used to get up on time
dijksterhuis 6y ago
Here's a better definition (imo): > A typical drug user is someone who uses drugs. It's impossible to neatly encapsulate every single type of drug user into a "typical" category. Everyone is different. Some people use drugs. Others don't. Some people can use drugs recreationaly, others can't (including myself).

by yladiz 6y ago

avisser 6y ago

> how can you do anything when you're high on heroin? It is a straw-man to assume that drug users are high during work. There are plenty of hours in the day. Erowid puts the duration of a heroin high at 2-4 hours. https://erowid.org/chemicals/heroin/heroin_basics.shtml https://erowid.org/chemicals/heroin/heroin_basics.shtml

swirepe 6y ago
8 hours for sleeping 8 hours for getting your $80 for the day to get high 4 hours to get high 4 hours for...I don't know, working on a novel or something

rkachowski 6y ago

From my reading, alcohol drinkers are absolutely included in his definition of a "drug user" and the exact same objection would apply - how can you do anything when you're drunk on alcohol?

Mediterraneo10 6y ago
> how can you do anything when you're drunk on alcohol? The statistics for alcohol consumption in the Nordic countries in the 19th century are staggering, adult males were basically drinking hard liquor all day every day as they went about their work. Alcohol definitely has its effects on the body and is a huge safety risk, but apparently men were still able regardless to run their farms, build the buildings they needed, chop wood, etc.
- wingerlang 6y ago
  On the other hand the government had to step in and make alcohol restrictions because of the abuse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systembolaget#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systembolaget#History
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
detritus 6y ago
I've actually often used booze to power beyond sense and get extra work done at the end of a day, however there is a HUGE proviso - it has to be design work, or stuff that I know inside out and could do blind-folded anyway. Anything to do with programming or logic and I became a useless head-scratching moron, going around in ever tighter circles of stupidity. Design work though? There was many a time I awoke the next morning and had a dread-chill panic thinking I'd need to get some project done, only to find I'd not only done it the night before, but I'd actually not hate it. Which, as a designer at the time, was high praise. Sure, there might be some rough edges or stupid typos, but the overall work would be Great, by my standards at least, so after a quick review, would be ready to go. I used to refer to it as 'free work'. I guess letting go is more of a useful trait in design. I'd not recommend it for doing work in critically-important fields, obviously! - ed last line
- Uberphallus 6y ago
  Same. I tried coding tipsy, especially after colleague farewell meals, and I never did anything good. At most I gave funny code reviews to people. For most of my life I also cooked sober. But when I started cooking tipsy, I began preparing meals I could have never believed I made myself. My current lasagna recipe is an absolute bomb and it's been perfected over a dozen drunken cooking sessions. Even Italians asked me for the recipe.
  - detritus 6y ago
    Oh! Don't get me started on tipsy cooking. Main problem there is replicability. My partner often gets annoyed at me when she asks if I can cook some nice thing I'd recently made, only for me to umm and aaah because I didn't write down the exact ingredients... .

nicoburns 6y ago

I've never taken heroin, but I've heard that it is quite possible to work while high on it. Partly because the high isn't quite like other drugs that give you a high. Which is apparently one of the reasons why it's so easy to become addicted: at first you can feel pretty normal and competent while on it.

throwaway_du 6y ago

I used drugs recreationally until I had children. During this time I knew many colleagues that used drugs every week. Some used amphetamines and mdma at parties. Some used morphine substitutes day time during the weekends, and on a few occasions some were high during work hours (the last few hours on friday). They were very productive. Just because you use a hard drug does not mean that you have to take a large dose. I would argue that most people will be more productive with a low dose of amphetamines. On the other hand, I think no one codes better with alcohol. It all depends on the drug. For several years I made a living playing poker, and I played a lot better with morphine in my system. It made me more patient and focused. I even tracked my results in different databases (with pokertracker) to compare my results while high. I made almost 10% more while high, and this is over hundreds of hours played.

treeman79 6y ago
Bio parents of my adopted child used them recreationally. They used them all through kids childhood. Really screwed em up. Every single person in group homes and foster system had same sort of tale.
- pksebben 6y ago
  Does that mean the substances are to blame? IMHO, people who would create a responsibility for themselves (child) and then ignore that responsibility have problems above and beyond how they recreate. Their indulgence is a symptom, not a cause.

mellavora 6y ago

Friend of mine is from Pakistan. He says that the guys who drive heavy trucks through the mountains always take heroin first. Helps them keep calm when navigating a road which has sections only marginally wider than the truck, with a 500m drop on one side. I'm not promoting DUI (lost too many friends that way, mostly from OTHER people DUI'ing and hitting them), just saying that there are professions where the people engaged think that dulling the fear/panic response is worth the reduced reaction times.

selimthegrim 6y ago
Are you sure he’s not talking about charas?
biolurker1 6y ago
That must be the definition of urban myth

jimmaswell 6y ago

> but I would be very surprised if most heroin users are responsible professionals - how can you do anything when you're high on heroin? The rock scene of the 80s comes to mind. Lots of them did it af the time while they were touring.

waterhouse 6y ago
The Guns N' Roses song "Mr. Brownstone" is essentially about this (brownstone being slang for heroin). It seems it worked for some time, but eventually... I get up around seven Get out of bed around nine ... I used to do a little but a little wouldn't do it So the little got more and more I just keep tryin' to get a little better Said a little better than before ... Now I get up around whenever I used to get up on time

dijksterhuis 6y ago

Here's a better definition (imo): > A typical drug user is someone who uses drugs. It's impossible to neatly encapsulate every single type of drug user into a "typical" category. Everyone is different. Some people use drugs. Others don't. Some people can use drugs recreationaly, others can't (including myself).