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Man, I read this as someone who tried to use opioids and I just couldn't chip. It spiraled into full blown physical dependence. I guess i'm the type with an und

by rmac 6y ago

Man, I read this as someone who tried to use opioids and I just couldn't chip. It spiraled into full blown physical dependence. I guess i'm the type with an underlying psychiatric illness which drove my usage and denial. That there exists people like this person who can chip (controlled use of opiates) always intrigues me -- as this drug was the ultimate pathway to euphoria and thus I became the mouse hitting the button for more more more. If you're on the chipping path I hope you can find peace just for today. I am pro-legalization of all drugs with some FDA oversight on quality.

koheripbal 6y ago
Opioids are insanely and ~~instantly~~ quickly addictive. I accidentally became addicted after knee surgery. When the pain subsided, I stopped taking them, and within a day I found myself curled up in a ball and wanting to rip my own skin off. It's really true when addicts describe it as "being uncomfortable in your own skin". The moment I realized I was experiencing withdrawal, I flushed the meds down the toilet and just suffered through it for a couple days. Never ever touch heroin. Stay away from prescription opioids unless it's really really needed, and make sure it's short term only.
- sneak 6y ago
  > Opioids are insanely and instantly addictive. This is the kind of FUD that TFA is specifically addressing. Namely, that this is not always a true statement. Of course, for many people, it is, which is why people make such sweeping (and incorrect) statements. Your warning is valid, your claimed facts are not.
  - treeman79 6y ago
    A gun is always loaded. Even if it has no bullets.
    - mod 6y ago
      I think you're trying to argue GP's point, but you've only confirmed it, because you're misrepresenting both the facts and the traditional advice. "Treat every gun as if it were loaded" is the traditional advice, and is a wonderful attitude to have about firearms. But if it's not loaded, it's not loaded, those are the facts. Perhaps the same with opiods: treat them as if they are highly addictive, in a rapid manner. But if (for you) they aren't, they aren't.
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    So even if it's not true for everyone that's a practically useless observation because how are you going to find out it's not true for you without risking becoming instantly addicted?
    - ch4s3 6y ago
      I don't have the reference at hand, but the rates of problematic use in the population seem to mirror alcohol. A small single digit percent of people will absolutely have a horrible problem, 8-10% will engage in disordered use, ~10% will over use in some way, and 80% will never develop a problem at all.
      - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        Excuse the snark, but any chance it was funded by the Sacklers?
        ch4s3 6y ago
        No. There's a large body of research. Here's one showing only 5% of people filling opioid scripts go on to long term use.[1] Another older study citing 2% of US adults regularly using opioids, while a further 29% use them infrequently. Other more recent studies I seen hold this pretty constant. [2] Here [3] only 13% of elective surgery patients fill opioid scripts beyond 90 days, and "mental health disorders, and tobacco dependence or abuse were associated with prolonged opioid use". It's well known that people with one substance abuse issue tend to be at higher risk for developing others. You could go on and on finding studies that show that relatively few people with high risk medical/mental health history go on to develop opioid addiction after using these substances. There doesn't seem to be any support for the idea that the average person can take these drugs once and become "hooked". All that said, they are dangerous and have strong addictive potential so caution is warranted. [1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-016-3810-3?&utm_medium=other&utm_source=other&utm_content=5022018&utm_campaign=10_dann_ctw2018_5_med_09 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-016-3810-3?... [2]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304395908000535 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03043... [3] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0363502316304270 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03635...
  - bostonsre 6y ago
    The assertions that the are made in the article seem like something that should be backed up with studies and not anecdotal evidence from one person (even if he is well respected). It is an incredibly slippery slope for people to walk out on. It would be incredibly hard for someone to say whether or not they will spiral out of control if they try it and the consequences of becoming heavily addicted are life destroying. It seems like playing Russian roulette and I'm not sure it's a good thing to raise the idea that one can potentially manage it. Also, the person being interviewed could be one of the people that can't control it and will spiral out of control or him saying he manages it well and it's possible to do so could be a facade and he could be trying to do whatever possible to keep his habit alive, but we just don't know. Many people manage it fine for years without anyone knowing until they start their sharp decline towards bottom.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      >The assertions that the are made in the article seem like something that should be backed up with studies and not anecdotal evidence from one person (even if he is well respected). Wherw do you think he got these assertions? There have already been studies about how often heroin users are addicts or what the addiction rate of prescription opioids are.
      - bostonsre 6y ago
        From the interview, it sounds a lot like he got them from his personal experience. He mentions percentages, but I see no references to any sources. It matters what those sources are (e.g. if they are from Purdue pharma or the sacklers, it's probably BS).
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        Then buy his book, how is he supposed to cite his sources in an interview?
        bostonsre 6y ago
  - burnthrow 6y ago
    Two things I don't like FUD around: My Linux and my heroin.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > Opioids are insanely and instantly addictive. I accidentally became addicted after knee surgery. Is that true generally, or just for a subset of people who have some predisposition to addiction? While it could just be Purdue Pharma propaganda, I vaguely recall hearing that the "instant addiction" was a myth. However, people like you have experiences like yours, so there must be some truth to the "instant addiction" idea. Edit for downvoters: I think it totally makes sense for everyone treat opioids like a loaded gun, like another poster said, if some people are vulnerable to an instant addiction effect. I just want to clarify what the actual situation is (for me and all the other people who were told it was a myth).
  - fingerlocks 6y ago
    Yeah it’s a total myth. Not sure why you’re being downvoted. My wife and I kept a bottle of oxy in our bathroom for a few years, taking it only occasionally. No one got addicted because neither of us wanted to keep taking it. A prerequisite for addiction is that one must believe the drug makes them feel “normal” or functional in some way. “I can’t live with this pain - I need it.” If instead you as a user go into the drug experience with the mindset that you are entering a temporary state, one that is reserved for special occasions, you’re far less likely to become addicted.
    - watwut 6y ago
      It is not myth. Some people get instantly addicted to heroin, others can continue using casually for years. We dont really know what exactly is different, but it cant be psychological only. The withdrawal symptoms are physical, not just how you feel emotionally.
      - fingerlocks 6y ago
        Yes, it’s a myth that they are “instantly” addicting. I don’t deny the drug is powerful, but you have to want it. If it were true that it was instantly physically addictive, then literally every human being that has ever had any kind of surgery or been to the ER for trauma would be a rabid opioid zombie. But they aren’t.
- codr7 6y ago
  It's all about the profit, synthetic opioids are designed to be as addictive as possible. I've been through plenty of addictions, but quitting Oxy after surgery is the closest thing to hell I've experienced so far.
- f1refly 6y ago
  I can't confirm your experience at all. I've had a serious car accident after which they kept me on opium in the hospital for three days. After they replaced it with weaker pain treatment compounds I didn't have any desire to go back, despite how I was feeling when taking opium. I wouldn't say they're instantly addictive.
  - ChrisRR 6y ago
    3 days is a very typical prescription length to stop addiction kicking in
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - mod 6y ago
    I can confirm his experience via my brother's nearly identical experience. He asked for a non-addictive painkiller, as he knows he has an addictive personality. He was prescribed an opiod anyway, I don't recall which, for a serious abscessed tooth. After a couple of days he was experiencing identical symptoms as the GP. I'm not trying to chime in on how strictly we're interpreting "instantly," but for me I will definitely do my best to avoid opiods. Taking the prescribed amount for 2-3 days, and literally not taking the rest of the pills (both GP and my brother), and having serious physical withdrawals--that's fast enough that I would rather avoid it.
- csunbird 6y ago
  Someone I know had a basic nose surgery (bone deviation) and then she experienced withdrawal symptoms after the surgery because of the anesthetics, which required intervention by professionals and she was unable to work for a month. Edit: Just to clarify, she was not prescribed any opioids/drugs to be taken post surgery, it was purely the anesthetics.
  - wl 6y ago
    An anesthetic would typically consist of something like a small dose of a short-acting benzo before surgery for anxiety, propofol (very short acting) for induction, an opioid for pain management, an anesthetic gas like sevoflurane to maintain anesthesia, pressors to bring up blood pressure if necessary, and a few other drugs that probably don't merit mention. Of these drugs, the only ones that might cause withdrawal symptoms would be the benzo or the opioid. The benzo, if it's even given at all, is going to be tiny. Even if we were to hypothesize that a single unusually large dose of an opioid could induce dependency, a surgery where the patient isn't even given opioids to take home wouldn't warrant such a dose in the OR. In short, your second-hand account makes no sense.
    - csunbird 6y ago
      To be honest, a lot of people, including the doctors themselves, doubted her as well. I am fuzzy on the details, because the person was just an acquaintance. There was a huge investigation on her history, looking for substance abuse. They found nothing.
- Broken_Hippo 6y ago
  They aren't instantly addictive, though: As in, I've had opioids prescribed, took as needed, and still have some in the cabinet that are probably expired. I've smoked opium a handful of times. It smells wonderfully. And yet, if I take any drug regularly, I'm using something with THC in it (hash or pot, in general). I currently do not, however, and tend to have a few drinks and get high on the weekends. Not a big deal if I don't, though. I've had medical grade heroin in the hospital (morphine didn't take care of the pain). No withdrawal, though I was wonderfully high. Haven't gone to a morphine habit. The prudent thing to do is not to say, "opioids are instantly addictive", but to give folks safe ways to detox from them and give folks information on signs of addiction - because not everyone has such experiences.
  - TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
    You're an outlier. The vast majority of people who smoke opium or experience euphoria from taking medical grade heroin will obtain the urge to do it more.
    - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
      See, this is saying something else entirely. Also, do you have a source for this? Would I do opium again? Sure. It was fun. Would I do medical grade heroin or morphine again, under controlled circumstances with a nursing staff dosing me? Yeah. It was fun. Did I have some weird urge to go out and do it frequently? Nope. But to be fair, lots of folks drink on more than one occasion as well. They get high more than once. They might even have more than one drink or hit in one day. Simply wanting to do something again doesn't mean anything. I've done acid more times than I can count, and I wouldn't call it a habit. The only drug that I'd probably do more often if it were not dangerous to do too often is MDMA because it feels spectacular (better than opioids, to me anyway), but I'd not even call it a strong urge. This isn't addiction, nor is it anything uncontrollable in general. Unless you are implying that folks get uncontrollable urges, and in that case, please back that up with facts. Though I've met my share of addicts, most things just aren't instantly addictive. Even heroin isn't that way - especially if you actually improve an addicts like (hence, troops addicted to heroin in wars came home to be non-addicts).
- ufmace 6y ago
  From what I've read, this varies hugely among the population. Some people seem to not be affected by them at all. Some people are able to use them short-term for pain relief and stop with no drama when the pain subsides. And some people get dangerously addicted even with a legitimately prescribed short-term dose for actual crippling pain. It seems it's often hard to determine which one a person is ahead of time. FWIW, good on you for recognizing that you're one of the third group and getting off of it entirely before the addiction gets even worse.
- kenneth 6y ago
  I've only ever tried opioids after being a surgery. I was prescribed off oxy to take every 4h. Was supposed to take it for two weeks. Every dose knocked me out and made me feel so uselessly drowsy… I quickly dropped it to one a day and by day 3 I just stopped taking it altogether. Couldn't stand it… the pain was better than the feeling of being high. I ended up using barely 5% of the prescribed amount. Random acquaintances came out of the woodwork to ask to buy my pills. I just tossed them all… that shit was nasty and I didn't want it nor did I want to enable anyone. And I say this as someone who's plenty happy with drugs legalization, who likes the occasional MDMA, and who drinks plenty of alcohol. I guess I'm lucky I never run the risk of opiates addiction, because despite all that I have no desire to every touch the stuff again.
- wittyreference 6y ago
  "Opioids are insanely and ~~instantly~~ quickly addictive." Do you have a source for this assertion? I'm just a physician with a particular specialty in medically managed (as opposed to procedurally managed) pain, and I've never seen a "I took it once and was instantly addicted." I don't mean to undercut your subjective experience, but I've seen a few folks on pain killers, and if what you described was more common than "very rare", I would have by now.
- theli0nheart 6y ago
  > Opioids are insanely and ~~instantly~~ quickly addictive. I accidentally became addicted after knee surgery. They may be instantly addictive for you, but they are not for everyone. After I had a pleurodesis, the nurse sat me down in the chair next to the hospital bed and gave me a little controller I could use to release morphine into my saline solution if the pain became unbearable (and it did). It was the strangest sensation—I could 'feel' the pain, in a sense, but it was like I was on a different plane, and it didn't quite bother me. But to say it was instantly addictive—nope. Not at all. Have had no desire to try anything like that again outside of a hospital setting. Maybe some people are just not prone to it.
- yibg 6y ago
  That's a very blanket statement without any backing. I've been on opioids several times for pain management and haven't experienced any withdrawal symptoms.
mabbo 6y ago
I can barely control my use of caffeine. Without it, I turn into a raging psychopath. And I'm consuming more and more of it all the time. Heroin terrifies me.
- eurasiantiger 6y ago
  Caffeine, or coffee? They are very different substances: one is a pure alkaloid with well-defined effects, the other is a concoction of hundreds, possibly thousands of active ingredients. Most relevantly, coffee contains a relatively large amount of Harmala alkaloids, which are a family of beta-carboline monoamine oxidase inhibitors commonly found in Ayahuasca brews (and named after one of its ingredients, Penganum harmala).
  - mabbo 6y ago
    I'm down to just black tea, but a lot of it. Occasional cola as well. Honestly, I need to ween myself back a bit.
- bserge 6y ago
  I would say caffeine is easy to quit, but I'm an alcoholic so I understand perfectly. It seems like you don't need it, yet you use it regularly. Try caffeine pills, they have a cleaner effect with no stomach/intestine troubles. Somewhat easier to quit, too.
rincebrain 6y ago
I've been given opioid prescriptions a few times in my life, and I've never found myself wanting to take them for their own sake or suffering from withdrawal afterward. It's probably some variable physiological response - hopefully one day we'll have a good way of profiling a priori which people may have difficulty with using opioids in a controlled fashion so people don't have to suffer to find out they're among the unlucky ones. (Or maybe we'll come up with either a new class of drugs to replace opioids entirely, or a cocktail to block the adverse effects...)
- seibelj 6y ago
  I got prescribed Percocet back when they casually gave them away to teenagers who had their wisdom teeth removed, and did not like it. Not only was I constipated but it made me feel really lazy and itchy. Not a fan.
- throwawayboise 6y ago
  Same. Never felt the slightest euphoria taking the prescribed dose. Maybe got a bit sleepy, but it's been so long I don't quite remember.
fingerlocks 6y ago
Because it’s not the ultimate pathway to euphoria for everyone. Some of us don’t like the “sinking into oblivion” feeling of that class of drugs. I don’t want to feel like my IQ has been sliced in half. Really hate it actually. The dragon to chase is of the functional businessman’s variety- cocaine. I’d rather take something that enhances my life experience, turns conversation in liquid gold oozing from mouth. Opiates and barbiturates temporarily hide your problems under a blanket of haze, confusion, and constipation. No thanks.
- 3131s 6y ago
  Yeah, I've done heroin, morphine, oxycodone, opium, and a few others in the past and never felt any pull to do them. But I love cocaine, psychedelics, and weed though, and I have been somewhat addicted to all three at different times in my life. I specifically wouldn't ever get drunk if I didn't have weed to go with it, as that's the only way to make alcohol any fun for me.
- tmp-20210218 6y ago
  yeah, cocaine doesn't have the awesomest rep either - a crack addiction is just another way of temporarily getting away from something problematic.
steve_adams_86 6y ago
As a teen I made opium from poppies around the neighbourhood. After smoking it once I threw the rest out. The intensity of how perfect it felt was alarming. I remember within minutes thinking I'll become addicted to it if I don't get rid of it. Despite that being a scary prospect, I kept feeling great the entire time. It really beats any bad feeling out of you. Incredibly creepy. I was a dumb teenager (I'm still not very smart) but I'm grateful I had the intuition to realize how dangerous it was. The only way I can describe it was that I felt the pleasure overwhelming my ability to reason, and that felt very disabling.
- tptacek 6y ago
  You grew up in a neighborhood full of opium poppies?
  - tanseydavid 6y ago
    He lives next to next to the Land of Oz.
  - AnotherGoodName 6y ago
    Perhaps Tasmania? Tasmania has legalized opium production and you'll see fields of opium poppies everywhere since it's the source of the majority of medical opiates. The reasons for Tasmania being the center of the western worlds poppy production are obvious. It's easy to ensure the exports to the rest of the world are done via controlled channels. This does lead to the weird situation where an entire population has easy access to opium should they want to raid nearby fields; the fields are lightly fenced with warning signs stating that it's bad for your health. Perhaps surprisingly to many Tasmania doesn't really have any issues from this. This may lend some credence to the above article - it takes more than just access to lead to issues for people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmanian_opium_poppy_farming_industry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmanian_opium_poppy_farming_...
  - steve_adams_86 6y ago
    Not full of them, but I’ve always been especially fond of plants, and poppies in particular because my mom grew some spectacular varieties. Through boredom and interest I discovered a home nearby was growing a variety of poppy which could be processed into opium. I took some seed heads at the correct growth stage on an evening walk, then processed them later. The process is very crude but works well for experimentation. I think if you were a serious opiate user it would probably be too inefficient and inconvenient to warrant over simply buying opium.
vmchale 6y ago
> I guess i'm the type with an underlying psychiatric illness which drove my usage and denial. I think substances can be addictive on their own, which gets occluded by many on the "pro-drugs" side.
cwmma 6y ago
My wife can have a cigarette once and a while when she drinks and it's no big deal, last time I did that (6 months after I had quit) it took me 6 or 7 years to quit again.

by rmac 6y ago

koheripbal 6y ago

Opioids are insanely and ~~instantly~~ quickly addictive. I accidentally became addicted after knee surgery. When the pain subsided, I stopped taking them, and within a day I found myself curled up in a ball and wanting to rip my own skin off. It's really true when addicts describe it as "being uncomfortable in your own skin". The moment I realized I was experiencing withdrawal, I flushed the meds down the toilet and just suffered through it for a couple days. Never ever touch heroin. Stay away from prescription opioids unless it's really really needed, and make sure it's short term only.

sneak 6y ago
> Opioids are insanely and instantly addictive. This is the kind of FUD that TFA is specifically addressing. Namely, that this is not always a true statement. Of course, for many people, it is, which is why people make such sweeping (and incorrect) statements. Your warning is valid, your claimed facts are not.
- treeman79 6y ago
  A gun is always loaded. Even if it has no bullets.
  - mod 6y ago
    I think you're trying to argue GP's point, but you've only confirmed it, because you're misrepresenting both the facts and the traditional advice. "Treat every gun as if it were loaded" is the traditional advice, and is a wonderful attitude to have about firearms. But if it's not loaded, it's not loaded, those are the facts. Perhaps the same with opiods: treat them as if they are highly addictive, in a rapid manner. But if (for you) they aren't, they aren't.
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  So even if it's not true for everyone that's a practically useless observation because how are you going to find out it's not true for you without risking becoming instantly addicted?
  - ch4s3 6y ago
    I don't have the reference at hand, but the rates of problematic use in the population seem to mirror alcohol. A small single digit percent of people will absolutely have a horrible problem, 8-10% will engage in disordered use, ~10% will over use in some way, and 80% will never develop a problem at all.
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      Excuse the snark, but any chance it was funded by the Sacklers?
      - ch4s3 6y ago
        No. There's a large body of research. Here's one showing only 5% of people filling opioid scripts go on to long term use.[1] Another older study citing 2% of US adults regularly using opioids, while a further 29% use them infrequently. Other more recent studies I seen hold this pretty constant. [2] Here [3] only 13% of elective surgery patients fill opioid scripts beyond 90 days, and "mental health disorders, and tobacco dependence or abuse were associated with prolonged opioid use". It's well known that people with one substance abuse issue tend to be at higher risk for developing others. You could go on and on finding studies that show that relatively few people with high risk medical/mental health history go on to develop opioid addiction after using these substances. There doesn't seem to be any support for the idea that the average person can take these drugs once and become "hooked". All that said, they are dangerous and have strong addictive potential so caution is warranted. [1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-016-3810-3?&utm_medium=other&utm_source=other&utm_content=5022018&utm_campaign=10_dann_ctw2018_5_med_09 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-016-3810-3?... [2]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304395908000535 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03043... [3] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0363502316304270 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03635...
- bostonsre 6y ago
  The assertions that the are made in the article seem like something that should be backed up with studies and not anecdotal evidence from one person (even if he is well respected). It is an incredibly slippery slope for people to walk out on. It would be incredibly hard for someone to say whether or not they will spiral out of control if they try it and the consequences of becoming heavily addicted are life destroying. It seems like playing Russian roulette and I'm not sure it's a good thing to raise the idea that one can potentially manage it. Also, the person being interviewed could be one of the people that can't control it and will spiral out of control or him saying he manages it well and it's possible to do so could be a facade and he could be trying to do whatever possible to keep his habit alive, but we just don't know. Many people manage it fine for years without anyone knowing until they start their sharp decline towards bottom.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    >The assertions that the are made in the article seem like something that should be backed up with studies and not anecdotal evidence from one person (even if he is well respected). Wherw do you think he got these assertions? There have already been studies about how often heroin users are addicts or what the addiction rate of prescription opioids are.
    - bostonsre 6y ago
      From the interview, it sounds a lot like he got them from his personal experience. He mentions percentages, but I see no references to any sources. It matters what those sources are (e.g. if they are from Purdue pharma or the sacklers, it's probably BS).
      - boomboomsubban 6y ago
        Then buy his book, how is he supposed to cite his sources in an interview?
        bostonsre 6y ago
- burnthrow 6y ago
  Two things I don't like FUD around: My Linux and my heroin.
ardy42 6y ago
> Opioids are insanely and instantly addictive. I accidentally became addicted after knee surgery. Is that true generally, or just for a subset of people who have some predisposition to addiction? While it could just be Purdue Pharma propaganda, I vaguely recall hearing that the "instant addiction" was a myth. However, people like you have experiences like yours, so there must be some truth to the "instant addiction" idea. Edit for downvoters: I think it totally makes sense for everyone treat opioids like a loaded gun, like another poster said, if some people are vulnerable to an instant addiction effect. I just want to clarify what the actual situation is (for me and all the other people who were told it was a myth).
- fingerlocks 6y ago
  Yeah it’s a total myth. Not sure why you’re being downvoted. My wife and I kept a bottle of oxy in our bathroom for a few years, taking it only occasionally. No one got addicted because neither of us wanted to keep taking it. A prerequisite for addiction is that one must believe the drug makes them feel “normal” or functional in some way. “I can’t live with this pain - I need it.” If instead you as a user go into the drug experience with the mindset that you are entering a temporary state, one that is reserved for special occasions, you’re far less likely to become addicted.
  - watwut 6y ago
    It is not myth. Some people get instantly addicted to heroin, others can continue using casually for years. We dont really know what exactly is different, but it cant be psychological only. The withdrawal symptoms are physical, not just how you feel emotionally.
    - fingerlocks 6y ago
      Yes, it’s a myth that they are “instantly” addicting. I don’t deny the drug is powerful, but you have to want it. If it were true that it was instantly physically addictive, then literally every human being that has ever had any kind of surgery or been to the ER for trauma would be a rabid opioid zombie. But they aren’t.
codr7 6y ago
It's all about the profit, synthetic opioids are designed to be as addictive as possible. I've been through plenty of addictions, but quitting Oxy after surgery is the closest thing to hell I've experienced so far.
f1refly 6y ago
I can't confirm your experience at all. I've had a serious car accident after which they kept me on opium in the hospital for three days. After they replaced it with weaker pain treatment compounds I didn't have any desire to go back, despite how I was feeling when taking opium. I wouldn't say they're instantly addictive.
- ChrisRR 6y ago
  3 days is a very typical prescription length to stop addiction kicking in
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- mod 6y ago
  I can confirm his experience via my brother's nearly identical experience. He asked for a non-addictive painkiller, as he knows he has an addictive personality. He was prescribed an opiod anyway, I don't recall which, for a serious abscessed tooth. After a couple of days he was experiencing identical symptoms as the GP. I'm not trying to chime in on how strictly we're interpreting "instantly," but for me I will definitely do my best to avoid opiods. Taking the prescribed amount for 2-3 days, and literally not taking the rest of the pills (both GP and my brother), and having serious physical withdrawals--that's fast enough that I would rather avoid it.
csunbird 6y ago
Someone I know had a basic nose surgery (bone deviation) and then she experienced withdrawal symptoms after the surgery because of the anesthetics, which required intervention by professionals and she was unable to work for a month. Edit: Just to clarify, she was not prescribed any opioids/drugs to be taken post surgery, it was purely the anesthetics.
- wl 6y ago
  An anesthetic would typically consist of something like a small dose of a short-acting benzo before surgery for anxiety, propofol (very short acting) for induction, an opioid for pain management, an anesthetic gas like sevoflurane to maintain anesthesia, pressors to bring up blood pressure if necessary, and a few other drugs that probably don't merit mention. Of these drugs, the only ones that might cause withdrawal symptoms would be the benzo or the opioid. The benzo, if it's even given at all, is going to be tiny. Even if we were to hypothesize that a single unusually large dose of an opioid could induce dependency, a surgery where the patient isn't even given opioids to take home wouldn't warrant such a dose in the OR. In short, your second-hand account makes no sense.
  - csunbird 6y ago
    To be honest, a lot of people, including the doctors themselves, doubted her as well. I am fuzzy on the details, because the person was just an acquaintance. There was a huge investigation on her history, looking for substance abuse. They found nothing.
Broken_Hippo 6y ago
They aren't instantly addictive, though: As in, I've had opioids prescribed, took as needed, and still have some in the cabinet that are probably expired. I've smoked opium a handful of times. It smells wonderfully. And yet, if I take any drug regularly, I'm using something with THC in it (hash or pot, in general). I currently do not, however, and tend to have a few drinks and get high on the weekends. Not a big deal if I don't, though. I've had medical grade heroin in the hospital (morphine didn't take care of the pain). No withdrawal, though I was wonderfully high. Haven't gone to a morphine habit. The prudent thing to do is not to say, "opioids are instantly addictive", but to give folks safe ways to detox from them and give folks information on signs of addiction - because not everyone has such experiences.
- TheAdamAndChe 6y ago
  You're an outlier. The vast majority of people who smoke opium or experience euphoria from taking medical grade heroin will obtain the urge to do it more.
  - Broken_Hippo 6y ago
    See, this is saying something else entirely. Also, do you have a source for this? Would I do opium again? Sure. It was fun. Would I do medical grade heroin or morphine again, under controlled circumstances with a nursing staff dosing me? Yeah. It was fun. Did I have some weird urge to go out and do it frequently? Nope. But to be fair, lots of folks drink on more than one occasion as well. They get high more than once. They might even have more than one drink or hit in one day. Simply wanting to do something again doesn't mean anything. I've done acid more times than I can count, and I wouldn't call it a habit. The only drug that I'd probably do more often if it were not dangerous to do too often is MDMA because it feels spectacular (better than opioids, to me anyway), but I'd not even call it a strong urge. This isn't addiction, nor is it anything uncontrollable in general. Unless you are implying that folks get uncontrollable urges, and in that case, please back that up with facts. Though I've met my share of addicts, most things just aren't instantly addictive. Even heroin isn't that way - especially if you actually improve an addicts like (hence, troops addicted to heroin in wars came home to be non-addicts).
ufmace 6y ago
From what I've read, this varies hugely among the population. Some people seem to not be affected by them at all. Some people are able to use them short-term for pain relief and stop with no drama when the pain subsides. And some people get dangerously addicted even with a legitimately prescribed short-term dose for actual crippling pain. It seems it's often hard to determine which one a person is ahead of time. FWIW, good on you for recognizing that you're one of the third group and getting off of it entirely before the addiction gets even worse.
kenneth 6y ago
I've only ever tried opioids after being a surgery. I was prescribed off oxy to take every 4h. Was supposed to take it for two weeks. Every dose knocked me out and made me feel so uselessly drowsy… I quickly dropped it to one a day and by day 3 I just stopped taking it altogether. Couldn't stand it… the pain was better than the feeling of being high. I ended up using barely 5% of the prescribed amount. Random acquaintances came out of the woodwork to ask to buy my pills. I just tossed them all… that shit was nasty and I didn't want it nor did I want to enable anyone. And I say this as someone who's plenty happy with drugs legalization, who likes the occasional MDMA, and who drinks plenty of alcohol. I guess I'm lucky I never run the risk of opiates addiction, because despite all that I have no desire to every touch the stuff again.
wittyreference 6y ago
"Opioids are insanely and ~~instantly~~ quickly addictive." Do you have a source for this assertion? I'm just a physician with a particular specialty in medically managed (as opposed to procedurally managed) pain, and I've never seen a "I took it once and was instantly addicted." I don't mean to undercut your subjective experience, but I've seen a few folks on pain killers, and if what you described was more common than "very rare", I would have by now.
theli0nheart 6y ago
> Opioids are insanely and ~~instantly~~ quickly addictive. I accidentally became addicted after knee surgery. They may be instantly addictive for you, but they are not for everyone. After I had a pleurodesis, the nurse sat me down in the chair next to the hospital bed and gave me a little controller I could use to release morphine into my saline solution if the pain became unbearable (and it did). It was the strangest sensation—I could 'feel' the pain, in a sense, but it was like I was on a different plane, and it didn't quite bother me. But to say it was instantly addictive—nope. Not at all. Have had no desire to try anything like that again outside of a hospital setting. Maybe some people are just not prone to it.
yibg 6y ago
That's a very blanket statement without any backing. I've been on opioids several times for pain management and haven't experienced any withdrawal symptoms.

mabbo 6y ago

I can barely control my use of caffeine. Without it, I turn into a raging psychopath. And I'm consuming more and more of it all the time. Heroin terrifies me.

eurasiantiger 6y ago
Caffeine, or coffee? They are very different substances: one is a pure alkaloid with well-defined effects, the other is a concoction of hundreds, possibly thousands of active ingredients. Most relevantly, coffee contains a relatively large amount of Harmala alkaloids, which are a family of beta-carboline monoamine oxidase inhibitors commonly found in Ayahuasca brews (and named after one of its ingredients, Penganum harmala).
- mabbo 6y ago
  I'm down to just black tea, but a lot of it. Occasional cola as well. Honestly, I need to ween myself back a bit.
bserge 6y ago
I would say caffeine is easy to quit, but I'm an alcoholic so I understand perfectly. It seems like you don't need it, yet you use it regularly. Try caffeine pills, they have a cleaner effect with no stomach/intestine troubles. Somewhat easier to quit, too.

rincebrain 6y ago

I've been given opioid prescriptions a few times in my life, and I've never found myself wanting to take them for their own sake or suffering from withdrawal afterward. It's probably some variable physiological response - hopefully one day we'll have a good way of profiling a priori which people may have difficulty with using opioids in a controlled fashion so people don't have to suffer to find out they're among the unlucky ones. (Or maybe we'll come up with either a new class of drugs to replace opioids entirely, or a cocktail to block the adverse effects...)

seibelj 6y ago
I got prescribed Percocet back when they casually gave them away to teenagers who had their wisdom teeth removed, and did not like it. Not only was I constipated but it made me feel really lazy and itchy. Not a fan.
throwawayboise 6y ago
Same. Never felt the slightest euphoria taking the prescribed dose. Maybe got a bit sleepy, but it's been so long I don't quite remember.

fingerlocks 6y ago

Because it’s not the ultimate pathway to euphoria for everyone. Some of us don’t like the “sinking into oblivion” feeling of that class of drugs. I don’t want to feel like my IQ has been sliced in half. Really hate it actually. The dragon to chase is of the functional businessman’s variety- cocaine. I’d rather take something that enhances my life experience, turns conversation in liquid gold oozing from mouth. Opiates and barbiturates temporarily hide your problems under a blanket of haze, confusion, and constipation. No thanks.

3131s 6y ago
Yeah, I've done heroin, morphine, oxycodone, opium, and a few others in the past and never felt any pull to do them. But I love cocaine, psychedelics, and weed though, and I have been somewhat addicted to all three at different times in my life. I specifically wouldn't ever get drunk if I didn't have weed to go with it, as that's the only way to make alcohol any fun for me.
tmp-20210218 6y ago
yeah, cocaine doesn't have the awesomest rep either - a crack addiction is just another way of temporarily getting away from something problematic.

steve_adams_86 6y ago

As a teen I made opium from poppies around the neighbourhood. After smoking it once I threw the rest out. The intensity of how perfect it felt was alarming. I remember within minutes thinking I'll become addicted to it if I don't get rid of it. Despite that being a scary prospect, I kept feeling great the entire time. It really beats any bad feeling out of you. Incredibly creepy. I was a dumb teenager (I'm still not very smart) but I'm grateful I had the intuition to realize how dangerous it was. The only way I can describe it was that I felt the pleasure overwhelming my ability to reason, and that felt very disabling.

tptacek 6y ago
You grew up in a neighborhood full of opium poppies?
- tanseydavid 6y ago
  He lives next to next to the Land of Oz.
- AnotherGoodName 6y ago
  Perhaps Tasmania? Tasmania has legalized opium production and you'll see fields of opium poppies everywhere since it's the source of the majority of medical opiates. The reasons for Tasmania being the center of the western worlds poppy production are obvious. It's easy to ensure the exports to the rest of the world are done via controlled channels. This does lead to the weird situation where an entire population has easy access to opium should they want to raid nearby fields; the fields are lightly fenced with warning signs stating that it's bad for your health. Perhaps surprisingly to many Tasmania doesn't really have any issues from this. This may lend some credence to the above article - it takes more than just access to lead to issues for people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmanian_opium_poppy_farming_industry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmanian_opium_poppy_farming_...
- steve_adams_86 6y ago
  Not full of them, but I’ve always been especially fond of plants, and poppies in particular because my mom grew some spectacular varieties. Through boredom and interest I discovered a home nearby was growing a variety of poppy which could be processed into opium. I took some seed heads at the correct growth stage on an evening walk, then processed them later. The process is very crude but works well for experimentation. I think if you were a serious opiate user it would probably be too inefficient and inconvenient to warrant over simply buying opium.

vmchale 6y ago

> I guess i'm the type with an underlying psychiatric illness which drove my usage and denial. I think substances can be addictive on their own, which gets occluded by many on the "pro-drugs" side.

cwmma 6y ago

My wife can have a cigarette once and a while when she drinks and it's no big deal, last time I did that (6 months after I had quit) it took me 6 or 7 years to quit again.