4 ms·

I heavily doubt that. Could you receive 25k plus from an unknown source without rising a red flag somewhere in germany? Could you withdraw these 25k on the same

by herbst 6y ago

I heavily doubt that. Could you receive 25k plus from an unknown source without rising a red flag somewhere in germany? Could you withdraw these 25k on the same day without questions asked? Could you essentially hide the money from taxes and everything on your personal bank account?

BrandoElFollito 6y ago
I am not sure I understand your point. What I was saying is that bank secrecy in Switzerland, today, is the same as in, say, France or Germany. It means that in any of these countries the operations you mention would raise red flags immediately (in France for instance a bank must inform Tracfin about any cash transaction above 10k per month, and any other that they see as suspicious (including wire transfers, typically any above 10K that is not typical gets flagged)). In other words, Swiss banking is not anymore the one described in movies where you could come with 1M€ in cash, open an anonymous account and be done. Even in the past it was not that simple, but it was at least possible. EDIT : there are also many misunderstandings regarding how some accounts work. The most typical one is the "compte à numéro", a type of account where the owner is identified with a number, instead of their name. It is seen as a way to make your account anonymous but this is not the case. The bank has the mapping of the number <-> name and they have the obligation te release it like for any other account. The difference is that this information not known outside the bank. You get account statements for the name 7636536536 and not "John Brown", same for wire transfers. It is just to protect the privacy of the account owner, not to make it anonymous.
- DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
  > In other words, Swiss banking is not anymore the one described in movies where you could come with 1M€ in cash, open an anonymous account and be done. what you say reflects what I've read in the past few years on offshore tax crimes[0][1]. the OECD white/black/grey-list regulations are in reality a way to shift power from existing jurisdictions to US. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_as_a_tax_haven https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_as_a_tax_haven [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands:_Tax_Havens_and_the_Men_Who_Stole_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands:_Tax_Havens_a...
  - BrandoElFollito 6y ago
    I cannot stop thinking that the US have become a real global bully. They are using their financial power to force other nations their way, or to apply extraterritorial jurisdiction. For that they are using either the fact that there are foreign companies that do business on the US ground and they will be punished if their country does not follow the US decisions (EU presence in Iran is an example), or they will block their USD transactions. The EU is to weak to be a counterweight, China is probably the real competitor. All in all, I prefer to be under US rules than China, but this is still infuriating.
- herbst 6y ago
  Exactly my point. National wire transfers around 10k would bother no bank around here. And international ones nether. There are no exact threesholds but receiving 100k over 3 months or so would rise no eyebrow. And no tax agency would ever know. I dont know the exacts in the EU however its not that. Also yeah that movie thing is and was obviously wrong. But for locals there is a secrecy that you dont get anywhere nearby
  - BrandoElFollito 6y ago
    Yes this is indeed true for Swiss citizens (or companies incorporated in Switzerland). But not for the EU citizens/companies with accounts in Switzerland, and several other countries in the world (including Singapore - another ex money heaven).

by herbst 6y ago

BrandoElFollito 6y ago

I am not sure I understand your point. What I was saying is that bank secrecy in Switzerland, today, is the same as in, say, France or Germany. It means that in any of these countries the operations you mention would raise red flags immediately (in France for instance a bank must inform Tracfin about any cash transaction above 10k per month, and any other that they see as suspicious (including wire transfers, typically any above 10K that is not typical gets flagged)). In other words, Swiss banking is not anymore the one described in movies where you could come with 1M€ in cash, open an anonymous account and be done. Even in the past it was not that simple, but it was at least possible. EDIT : there are also many misunderstandings regarding how some accounts work. The most typical one is the "compte à numéro", a type of account where the owner is identified with a number, instead of their name. It is seen as a way to make your account anonymous but this is not the case. The bank has the mapping of the number <-> name and they have the obligation te release it like for any other account. The difference is that this information not known outside the bank. You get account statements for the name 7636536536 and not "John Brown", same for wire transfers. It is just to protect the privacy of the account owner, not to make it anonymous.

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
> In other words, Swiss banking is not anymore the one described in movies where you could come with 1M€ in cash, open an anonymous account and be done. what you say reflects what I've read in the past few years on offshore tax crimes[0][1]. the OECD white/black/grey-list regulations are in reality a way to shift power from existing jurisdictions to US. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_as_a_tax_haven https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_as_a_tax_haven [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands:_Tax_Havens_and_the_Men_Who_Stole_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands:_Tax_Havens_a...
- BrandoElFollito 6y ago
  I cannot stop thinking that the US have become a real global bully. They are using their financial power to force other nations their way, or to apply extraterritorial jurisdiction. For that they are using either the fact that there are foreign companies that do business on the US ground and they will be punished if their country does not follow the US decisions (EU presence in Iran is an example), or they will block their USD transactions. The EU is to weak to be a counterweight, China is probably the real competitor. All in all, I prefer to be under US rules than China, but this is still infuriating.
herbst 6y ago
Exactly my point. National wire transfers around 10k would bother no bank around here. And international ones nether. There are no exact threesholds but receiving 100k over 3 months or so would rise no eyebrow. And no tax agency would ever know. I dont know the exacts in the EU however its not that. Also yeah that movie thing is and was obviously wrong. But for locals there is a secrecy that you dont get anywhere nearby
- BrandoElFollito 6y ago
  Yes this is indeed true for Swiss citizens (or companies incorporated in Switzerland). But not for the EU citizens/companies with accounts in Switzerland, and several other countries in the world (including Singapore - another ex money heaven).