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Elon in particular can manipulate Bitcoin price so out of them all he's actually one of the most rational. As for the rest, I would not necessarily consider ins

by yks 6y ago

Elon in particular can manipulate Bitcoin price so out of them all he's actually one of the most rational. As for the rest, I would not necessarily consider institutional investors an infallible authority, they are prone to groupthink and have a pressure to diversify. Overall, we've been riding a long bull wave juiced up by the spineless Fed, and as the saying goes, everyone is a genius in the bull market.

bboygravity 6y ago
You're worried about Elon manipulating the Bitcoin price when Tesla eventually owns < 0.1% of all Bitcoins (assuming he buys at 48000 USD and assuming no other large parties like Apple buy in)? I find this kind of unsubstantiated doomsday thinking rather interesting: BTC overall is an insignificant market[1] compared to the stock market or the global illegal drug trade just to name two random examples. I strongly feel the markets and exchanges that trade BTC are infinitely more "fair" and "free" than the stock markets and forex markets will ever be. I also believe this is the main reason (besides loss of trust in USD fiat) why Bitcoin is so "expensive" and will keep going up in price. Think about it: even if all crypto exchanges in the world would collapse in 5 minutes, you'd still be able to trade Bitcoin in 10 minutes. The same can't be said for digital fiat dollars or stocks that are held without physical certificate (AKA all stocks). If the ongoing GameStop saga has taught me anything, it's that the stock markets are completely rigged in favor of "big money" institutions. They control everything from mass media (CNBC being the most blatant example) to the very rules that clearing houses, brokers and lawmakers create and follow. And they can change these rules to their liking within seconds, on the fly, without warning.[2][3] The systemic risk because of conflicts of interest/corruption right now is massive and I would not be surprised in the slightest if in a few months the stockmarket crashes worse than 2007/8 because of this. I estimate this risk is both more real, more critical in time and a whole lot of orders of magnitude worse than the negative impact BTC or USDT can possibly have on global society in the very worse case. This is not just whataboutism: I'm not just saying there are worse problems to focus on than Bitcoin. I'm saying Bitcoin might be the only (temporary) way out of global financial system crashes for (retail) investors. Just like gold has been for thousands of years. In my opinion Bitcoin is not the problem, it's a bandaid for the common man in case of real problems. I think this is why Elon Tweeted: "in retrospect it will be inevitable" while referring to Bitcon. I don't think Tesla is buying Bitcoin as an investment, rather they're buying insurance against the upcoming loss of buying power of USD. [1]https://www.visualcapitalist.com/all-of-the-worlds-money-and-markets-in-one-visualization-2020/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/all-of-the-worlds-money-and... [2]https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bad-words-lead-gamestop-shares-060034480.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bad-words-lead-gamestop-share... [3]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-17/sec-data-show-359-million-of-gamestop-shares-failed-to-deliver https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-17/sec-data-...
- phatfish 6y ago
  I assume the accusation is that Musk has a Twitter account where the tweets get replicated to the business section of most media outlets globally at the moment. He also has a history of dropping financial information through Twitter (the taking Tesla private tweet). Plus the rabid groupies stacked with Crypto fans. I'm not sure how tweeting something that pumps the Bitcoin price, and the selling a bunch plays out legally. But he didn't seem too bothered about it in relation to Tesla stock.
  - yks 6y ago
    This. Elon cannot manipulate Bitcoin price based on fundamentals (mostly because there are no fundamentals) but he controls the narrative. Every stock or asset he mentions goes up and I am sure he knows how to use it to his own advantage.

by yks 6y ago

bboygravity 6y ago

You're worried about Elon manipulating the Bitcoin price when Tesla eventually owns < 0.1% of all Bitcoins (assuming he buys at 48000 USD and assuming no other large parties like Apple buy in)? I find this kind of unsubstantiated doomsday thinking rather interesting: BTC overall is an insignificant market[1] compared to the stock market or the global illegal drug trade just to name two random examples. I strongly feel the markets and exchanges that trade BTC are infinitely more "fair" and "free" than the stock markets and forex markets will ever be. I also believe this is the main reason (besides loss of trust in USD fiat) why Bitcoin is so "expensive" and will keep going up in price. Think about it: even if all crypto exchanges in the world would collapse in 5 minutes, you'd still be able to trade Bitcoin in 10 minutes. The same can't be said for digital fiat dollars or stocks that are held without physical certificate (AKA all stocks). If the ongoing GameStop saga has taught me anything, it's that the stock markets are completely rigged in favor of "big money" institutions. They control everything from mass media (CNBC being the most blatant example) to the very rules that clearing houses, brokers and lawmakers create and follow. And they can change these rules to their liking within seconds, on the fly, without warning.[2][3] The systemic risk because of conflicts of interest/corruption right now is massive and I would not be surprised in the slightest if in a few months the stockmarket crashes worse than 2007/8 because of this. I estimate this risk is both more real, more critical in time and a whole lot of orders of magnitude worse than the negative impact BTC or USDT can possibly have on global society in the very worse case. This is not just whataboutism: I'm not just saying there are worse problems to focus on than Bitcoin. I'm saying Bitcoin might be the only (temporary) way out of global financial system crashes for (retail) investors. Just like gold has been for thousands of years. In my opinion Bitcoin is not the problem, it's a bandaid for the common man in case of real problems. I think this is why Elon Tweeted: "in retrospect it will be inevitable" while referring to Bitcon. I don't think Tesla is buying Bitcoin as an investment, rather they're buying insurance against the upcoming loss of buying power of USD. [1]https://www.visualcapitalist.com/all-of-the-worlds-money-and-markets-in-one-visualization-2020/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/all-of-the-worlds-money-and... [2]https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bad-words-lead-gamestop-shares-060034480.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bad-words-lead-gamestop-share... [3]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-17/sec-data-show-359-million-of-gamestop-shares-failed-to-deliver https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-17/sec-data-...

phatfish 6y ago
I assume the accusation is that Musk has a Twitter account where the tweets get replicated to the business section of most media outlets globally at the moment. He also has a history of dropping financial information through Twitter (the taking Tesla private tweet). Plus the rabid groupies stacked with Crypto fans. I'm not sure how tweeting something that pumps the Bitcoin price, and the selling a bunch plays out legally. But he didn't seem too bothered about it in relation to Tesla stock.
- yks 6y ago
  This. Elon cannot manipulate Bitcoin price based on fundamentals (mostly because there are no fundamentals) but he controls the narrative. Every stock or asset he mentions goes up and I am sure he knows how to use it to his own advantage.