4 ms·

The only difference between the police and traditional organized crime is scale.

pyre 15y ago
Not really. There is a large portion of the population that believes that the police aren't bad. The same can't be said of organized crime.
- pavel_lishin 15y ago
  I think that is the case in Japan.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    It was also, at least in some points in history, very much the case in Sicily.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  "a large portion" Scale. They're bigger, and they have more turf. They present themselves as authority figures. It's not terribly unheard of for 'Mafias' to have have neutral to positive public opinions in their "neighbourhoods". For the police, the nation is their neighbourhood.
yeahsure 15y ago
There was a time in the 50's when some "wise guys" tried to establish themselves in my city (in South America). My grandfather worked with a brother of a capo and told me that when they where getting started, the police came over and told them that the only ones allowed to bribe/extort where the police themselves. To this day, there's no organized crime in my city except from the police. And that's just one of the stories I know...
firemanx 15y ago
I'm sure the families of police officers who've died protecting others would disagree with you. I understand the dissatisfaction with the things that have happened to law enforcement over the years, but it is a far, far cry from being the same thing as organized crime. I'll disagree at great lengths with those who would abuse the system with things like the article linked, no knock raids, abuse of due process, and the myriad issues with the legal system, but honestly making that kind of blanket normalization is poisonous to not only improving the state of things, but the many, many, MANY good things our law enforcement organizations DO do for the communities they serve.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  To put the risk assumed by being in law enforcement into some perspective, here are some industries that saw more incidences of fatal occupational injuries due to "Assaults and violent acts": Food Services. Transportation and Warehousing. Grocery Stores. Retail. ...and more. So next time you decide you must have some nice pepperoni pizza, tip your local pizza delivery guy nicely and make sure to thank him for his service to this country. EDIT: citations are fun: http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cftb0241.pdf http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cftb0241.pdf
- mahmud 15y ago
  Protecting whom exactly? There are communities in the U.S. where the police are pretty much an occupying force.
danenania 15y ago
While the modern state has evolved large social, legal, and welfare apparatuses, these can all be thought of as the PR department for the dominant gang in the region. It still comes down to guns and greed. Incidents like these are reminders.
Locke1689 15y ago
This is hyperbolic bullshit. Keep it on Reddit.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  It is my belief that governance is just another form of tyranny. Government is not conceptually philosophically different from gangs, and if you look at how the police operate in practice there are massive parallels (such as, but not limited to, their "look out for our own" attitude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH9k8L3oDa4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH9k8L3oDa4). "hyperbolic" My point is that the only difference is scale. The difference in scale in this case happens to be somewhat extreme, so perhaps that is why you think I'm being hyperbolic... I'm not. Furthermore, I've never regulated Reddit.
  - Locke1689 15y ago
    I will not descend into an extremist philosophical debate to decide the validity of a plainly factually wrong comment. I hope that other readers will follow suit and am frankly insulted that you think that the readers of Hacker News are stupid enough to buy into such a plainly ignorant comment. Edit: Burgerbrain is correct, this comment was far too mean spirited. I will not change my comment because I believe editing robs context and rewrites history. I however continue to support the feeling that I had when writing this post, which is that I feel extremist philosophical debates are both off-topic and bring down the overall level of discussion on HN.
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      You have some way of choosing to not participate in a discussion... You should really knock it out with the namecalling however, because that is below HN. I am not the only person here expressing and backing up this general sentiment. If you don't want to discuss it like a reasonable adult, and don't want to read other people discuss it, then just move along. I don't have to take verbal abuse from you.
invalidOrTaken 15y ago
This is a terribly presumptuous thing to say. Police and organized crime may exhibit similar behaviors and methods, but the police are at least supposed to have an ideal to sustain. Admittedly, they don't always do that. But if it's not the police, it will be organized crime in charge, and I'll take my chances with the police.

pyre 15y ago

Not really. There is a large portion of the population that believes that the police aren't bad. The same can't be said of organized crime.

pavel_lishin 15y ago
I think that is the case in Japan.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  It was also, at least in some points in history, very much the case in Sicily.
burgerbrain 15y ago
"a large portion" Scale. They're bigger, and they have more turf. They present themselves as authority figures. It's not terribly unheard of for 'Mafias' to have have neutral to positive public opinions in their "neighbourhoods". For the police, the nation is their neighbourhood.

yeahsure 15y ago

There was a time in the 50's when some "wise guys" tried to establish themselves in my city (in South America). My grandfather worked with a brother of a capo and told me that when they where getting started, the police came over and told them that the only ones allowed to bribe/extort where the police themselves. To this day, there's no organized crime in my city except from the police. And that's just one of the stories I know...

firemanx 15y ago

I'm sure the families of police officers who've died protecting others would disagree with you. I understand the dissatisfaction with the things that have happened to law enforcement over the years, but it is a far, far cry from being the same thing as organized crime. I'll disagree at great lengths with those who would abuse the system with things like the article linked, no knock raids, abuse of due process, and the myriad issues with the legal system, but honestly making that kind of blanket normalization is poisonous to not only improving the state of things, but the many, many, MANY good things our law enforcement organizations DO do for the communities they serve.

burgerbrain 15y ago
To put the risk assumed by being in law enforcement into some perspective, here are some industries that saw more incidences of fatal occupational injuries due to "Assaults and violent acts": Food Services. Transportation and Warehousing. Grocery Stores. Retail. ...and more. So next time you decide you must have some nice pepperoni pizza, tip your local pizza delivery guy nicely and make sure to thank him for his service to this country. EDIT: citations are fun: http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cftb0241.pdf http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cftb0241.pdf
mahmud 15y ago
Protecting whom exactly? There are communities in the U.S. where the police are pretty much an occupying force.

danenania 15y ago

While the modern state has evolved large social, legal, and welfare apparatuses, these can all be thought of as the PR department for the dominant gang in the region. It still comes down to guns and greed. Incidents like these are reminders.

Locke1689 15y ago

This is hyperbolic bullshit. Keep it on Reddit.

burgerbrain 15y ago
It is my belief that governance is just another form of tyranny. Government is not conceptually philosophically different from gangs, and if you look at how the police operate in practice there are massive parallels (such as, but not limited to, their "look out for our own" attitude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH9k8L3oDa4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH9k8L3oDa4). "hyperbolic" My point is that the only difference is scale. The difference in scale in this case happens to be somewhat extreme, so perhaps that is why you think I'm being hyperbolic... I'm not. Furthermore, I've never regulated Reddit.
- Locke1689 15y ago
  I will not descend into an extremist philosophical debate to decide the validity of a plainly factually wrong comment. I hope that other readers will follow suit and am frankly insulted that you think that the readers of Hacker News are stupid enough to buy into such a plainly ignorant comment. Edit: Burgerbrain is correct, this comment was far too mean spirited. I will not change my comment because I believe editing robs context and rewrites history. I however continue to support the feeling that I had when writing this post, which is that I feel extremist philosophical debates are both off-topic and bring down the overall level of discussion on HN.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    You have some way of choosing to not participate in a discussion... You should really knock it out with the namecalling however, because that is below HN. I am not the only person here expressing and backing up this general sentiment. If you don't want to discuss it like a reasonable adult, and don't want to read other people discuss it, then just move along. I don't have to take verbal abuse from you.

invalidOrTaken 15y ago

This is a terribly presumptuous thing to say. Police and organized crime may exhibit similar behaviors and methods, but the police are at least supposed to have an ideal to sustain. Admittedly, they don't always do that. But if it's not the police, it will be organized crime in charge, and I'll take my chances with the police.