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This isn't the first anti-college discussion to come up recently... not even the first in the last 24 hours. What it boils down to for me is that SOME colleges

by synnik 15y ago

This isn't the first anti-college discussion to come up recently... not even the first in the last 24 hours. What it boils down to for me is that SOME colleges are not helping their students. People are using this partial failure, and extrapolating it into these arguments that all higher education is worthless. This isn't good logic, much less good advice.

smokeyj 15y ago
You're missing the point. It's time to challenge the traditional education business model. This is the digital age where information is cheap -- and college Institutions have no incentive to capitalize on this. They don't want to drive down their costs, why would they? Education should be like any other service and made available to anyone who wants it. Not to the richest kid. Not the kid with the highest GPA. Anyone. No one is arguing specialized education is bad, but there are much more efficient ways of getting there.
- adestefan 15y ago
  But college isn't about information gathering. And the Internet doesn't make eduction available to anyone. Public libraries make information available to anyone.
  - smokeyj 15y ago
    I agree that information isn't education. I disagree that the internet doesn't make education available -- you have to know where to find it. Now that you told me what college isn't about, what is it about? And why must it be threatened by a modern business model?
r00fus 15y ago
There is one thing that the article points out however, that's very important: "College is expensive. The College Board Policy Center found that the cost of public university tuition is about 3.6 times higher today than it was 30 years ago" This is insane. Public university tuition has inflated about 360%, while salaries have stayed flat or declined, and unemployment is on the rise. I agree with others that college benefits those who take advantage of what it offers, but when you come out with 6-figure debt, the cost/benefit of "investing in yourself" is seriously in question. The societal fabric in the USA has been under assault by the rich and elite, and public schooling (both k12 and collegiate) is merely one of those threads that's becoming unraveled (by the excessive burden of the profiteers/leeches).
jseliger 15y ago
"What it boils down to for me is that SOME colleges are not helping their students." Some colleges and some majors. I wrote elsewhere: "the word "college" can now mean so many things in so many places that it's hard to compare them. Does a random community college have much to do with a four-year party school, an Ivy-League school, a Midwestern technical school, or a Cal State school filled with first generation students? Probably not." This also applies to majors / departments, and the problem with criticizing "college" is that you're criticizing such a heterogeneous set of institutions, practices, and experiences that you're not actually describing a specific good or ill.
seanalltogether 15y ago
I believe what has been happening, and Mike Rowe recently talked about this in his address to congress, is that America has adopted the process of high school -> college as the norm, rather then the exception. 18 year olds go to college because they think they're supposed to, rather then going to help them accomplish something specific. I think the anti-college movement is good because it helps draw a line between those parts of the workforce that value a degree and those that don't.

by synnik 15y ago

smokeyj 15y ago

You're missing the point. It's time to challenge the traditional education business model. This is the digital age where information is cheap -- and college Institutions have no incentive to capitalize on this. They don't want to drive down their costs, why would they? Education should be like any other service and made available to anyone who wants it. Not to the richest kid. Not the kid with the highest GPA. Anyone. No one is arguing specialized education is bad, but there are much more efficient ways of getting there.

adestefan 15y ago
But college isn't about information gathering. And the Internet doesn't make eduction available to anyone. Public libraries make information available to anyone.
- smokeyj 15y ago
  I agree that information isn't education. I disagree that the internet doesn't make education available -- you have to know where to find it. Now that you told me what college isn't about, what is it about? And why must it be threatened by a modern business model?

r00fus 15y ago

There is one thing that the article points out however, that's very important: "College is expensive. The College Board Policy Center found that the cost of public university tuition is about 3.6 times higher today than it was 30 years ago" This is insane. Public university tuition has inflated about 360%, while salaries have stayed flat or declined, and unemployment is on the rise. I agree with others that college benefits those who take advantage of what it offers, but when you come out with 6-figure debt, the cost/benefit of "investing in yourself" is seriously in question. The societal fabric in the USA has been under assault by the rich and elite, and public schooling (both k12 and collegiate) is merely one of those threads that's becoming unraveled (by the excessive burden of the profiteers/leeches).

jseliger 15y ago

"What it boils down to for me is that SOME colleges are not helping their students." Some colleges and some majors. I wrote elsewhere: "the word "college" can now mean so many things in so many places that it's hard to compare them. Does a random community college have much to do with a four-year party school, an Ivy-League school, a Midwestern technical school, or a Cal State school filled with first generation students? Probably not." This also applies to majors / departments, and the problem with criticizing "college" is that you're criticizing such a heterogeneous set of institutions, practices, and experiences that you're not actually describing a specific good or ill.

seanalltogether 15y ago

I believe what has been happening, and Mike Rowe recently talked about this in his address to congress, is that America has adopted the process of high school -> college as the norm, rather then the exception. 18 year olds go to college because they think they're supposed to, rather then going to help them accomplish something specific. I think the anti-college movement is good because it helps draw a line between those parts of the workforce that value a degree and those that don't.