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I think he's got a lot of good points. "conformity rather than independence" - Very few classes grade on content, rather than A,B,C,D. I'll admit there are so

I think he's got a lot of good points. "conformity rather than independence" - Very few classes grade on content, rather than A,B,C,D. I'll admit there are some, though, especially in software development and literature. "competition rather than collaboration" - I've actually had classes that graded on a legit curve. that meant the bottom X% of the class failed, no matter how well they did. Just because others -in that class- were better. I've only ever been in 1 group-project class. (And group-project classes have their own problems.) "regurgitation rather than learning" - It's incredibly difficult to test for learned knowledge, rather than just memorization. "theory rather than application" - Colleges don't generally teach enough to get to the 'application' part. Even medical school has students intern for months before they have enough practical experience to actually do the job. I think the time is rapidly approaching where we are going to have to tailor the education to the subject, instead of the other way around. Doctors need a tremendous amount of memorization to do their jobs. The current system can work fairly well for them. Software developers, on the other hand, need a tremendous amount of practice, and rote memorization is pretty much useless. Existing schools are not prepared for this change. Most of them will resist it mightily until someone comes along and forces them out of the game because of it.

kenjackson 15y ago
I've only ever been in 1 group-project class. When I was in college group projects were extremely common. As were group-projects for clubs. The SW engineering sequence was all group based. The compiler sequence was group project based. OS was group project based. And architecture was group project based. It's incredibly difficult to test for learned knowledge, rather than just memorization. Is it really? Most of my tests were open book or take home. You'd think that this would negate 90% of the benefit of memorization.
- jsavimbi 15y ago
  Maybe he should check himself into Northeastern University. It was almost every course that started off teaming oneself up and heading right into the project work as a team. Loners were discouraged from venturing off.
- ryanisinallofus 15y ago
  "You'd think that this would negate 90% of the benefit of memorization." Particularly math classes. Memorization was almost meaningless and tests could be open book for all the prof cared.
jarek 15y ago
"I've actually had classes that graded on a legit curve. that meant the bottom X% of the class failed, no matter how well they did. Just because others -in that class- were better. I've only ever been in 1 group-project class." Not to be mean, but that might be a problem with your college rather than colleges in general.
juiceandjuice 15y ago
IMO, he's using excuses for his inability to work around these restrictions in a creative way. In some ways, college was my personal social-engineering experiment. Worrying your grade is in and of itself conformity, and if you throw the idea that you need to get a 4.0 to succeed in college out the window, the first two or three points are complete bunk. The theory vs. application thing is mostly bunk too, because you can find the application in college, but you will have to look, ask around, and find someone who is interested in it, and those people aren't always going to be in your academic sphere at the college of engineering. I graduated with a 2.5, made a lot of mistakes, but like I said, college was a huge experiment for me, and I knew what I needed to do to come out ahead and I did. I used and abused every opportunity there to learn what I wanted to learn while getting a degree. I had access to a machine shop, made friends with the shop supervisor, and got to do whatever the hell I wanted on $100,000 CNC machines. I worked for an experiment for professors, suggested projects and got to work on them. I walked to the engineering department and talked to the DSP professor and got explanations on things I didn't understand, even though I wasn't even enrolled in any engineering classes. It's such a cop out to just say college is broken because somebody isn't feeding you what you think you need to be fed. Nobody said you need to get a 4.0 in college to succeed in life, people just assume it, and nobody said things would just come to you when you were there, but people do assume that. College is a collection of amazing resources, and I would think that any true entrepreneur would understand this. I'm not saying that college is for everyone, but I am saying that pretending it's worthless or a waste of time only shows a lack of imagination, creativity and proactivity. Of course, if I had a startup called UnCollege I would say it was worthless too.

kenjackson 15y ago

I've only ever been in 1 group-project class. When I was in college group projects were extremely common. As were group-projects for clubs. The SW engineering sequence was all group based. The compiler sequence was group project based. OS was group project based. And architecture was group project based. It's incredibly difficult to test for learned knowledge, rather than just memorization. Is it really? Most of my tests were open book or take home. You'd think that this would negate 90% of the benefit of memorization.

jsavimbi 15y ago
Maybe he should check himself into Northeastern University. It was almost every course that started off teaming oneself up and heading right into the project work as a team. Loners were discouraged from venturing off.
ryanisinallofus 15y ago
"You'd think that this would negate 90% of the benefit of memorization." Particularly math classes. Memorization was almost meaningless and tests could be open book for all the prof cared.

jarek 15y ago

"I've actually had classes that graded on a legit curve. that meant the bottom X% of the class failed, no matter how well they did. Just because others -in that class- were better. I've only ever been in 1 group-project class." Not to be mean, but that might be a problem with your college rather than colleges in general.

juiceandjuice 15y ago

IMO, he's using excuses for his inability to work around these restrictions in a creative way. In some ways, college was my personal social-engineering experiment. Worrying your grade is in and of itself conformity, and if you throw the idea that you need to get a 4.0 to succeed in college out the window, the first two or three points are complete bunk. The theory vs. application thing is mostly bunk too, because you can find the application in college, but you will have to look, ask around, and find someone who is interested in it, and those people aren't always going to be in your academic sphere at the college of engineering. I graduated with a 2.5, made a lot of mistakes, but like I said, college was a huge experiment for me, and I knew what I needed to do to come out ahead and I did. I used and abused every opportunity there to learn what I wanted to learn while getting a degree. I had access to a machine shop, made friends with the shop supervisor, and got to do whatever the hell I wanted on $100,000 CNC machines. I worked for an experiment for professors, suggested projects and got to work on them. I walked to the engineering department and talked to the DSP professor and got explanations on things I didn't understand, even though I wasn't even enrolled in any engineering classes. It's such a cop out to just say college is broken because somebody isn't feeding you what you think you need to be fed. Nobody said you need to get a 4.0 in college to succeed in life, people just assume it, and nobody said things would just come to you when you were there, but people do assume that. College is a collection of amazing resources, and I would think that any true entrepreneur would understand this. I'm not saying that college is for everyone, but I am saying that pretending it's worthless or a waste of time only shows a lack of imagination, creativity and proactivity. Of course, if I had a startup called UnCollege I would say it was worthless too.