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It may be the case that USDT is a fraud, but that it's not a fraud big enough to crash anything else but USDT itself (heck, the "exit" may see USDT bag holder b

It may be the case that USDT is a fraud, but that it's not a fraud big enough to crash anything else but USDT itself (heck, the "exit" may see USDT bag holder buy frantically Bitcoin at any price they could, creating a pump on Bitcoin's price). For comparison there are 7.5 bn USDC circulating and these are emitted by Centre/Coinbase and these are known to be real (Coinbase being an HN unicorn to soon do its IPO). Tesla also just bought 1.5 bn of Bitcoin. Then are regular people buying directly with non USD currencies like EUR / JPY etc. (for which I take it there are no USDC emitted). So it's a known fact that money is flowing, by the billions, into Bitcoin. The question is: is iFinex/Bitfinex/tether printing USDT out of thin air by so many billions that they are actually manipulating the entire market?

tehlike 6y ago
The argument only provides support for the lows. Tether backing is not just dollar. They recursively use bitcoin as part of their reserve. Bitcoin price rises, and they print more usdt to buy more btc. It's hard to say how much btc would drop or pump. Tether bootstrapped crypto demand, even if it was done so fraudulently
- rawtxapp 6y ago
  For what it's worth makerdao also created DAI backed by crypto collateral (and stablecoins) and right now the outstanding debt from maker alone is like 2B+ and growing pretty rapidly (daistats.com). I know for a fact that many traders are using makerdao to leverage their crypto holdings to buy even more crypto, so there's definitely a circular money pump that happens (for example: WBTC-A vaults have an outstanding 240M$ debt, presumably significant chunk is used to buy back more BTC).
maytc 6y ago
Given tether makes up more than ~60% of the bitcoin liquidity I would argue otherwise... https://coinlib.io/coin/BTC/Bitcoin https://coinlib.io/coin/BTC/Bitcoin
csomar 6y ago
> For comparison there are 7.5 bn USDC circulating and these are emitted by Centre/Coinbase and these are known to be real (Coinbase being an HN unicorn to soon do its IPO). Fun fact: USDC is not backed by real USD. Circle is using these dollars for its trading purposes and that's actually in the ToS. Pretty much no stable coin is: https://omarabid.com/usd-stable-coins https://omarabid.com/usd-stable-coins
- TacticalCoder 6y ago
  > Fun fact: USDC is not backed by real USD. Circle is using these dollars for its trading purposes and that's actually in the ToS. That is really weird. From the link you gave: "you agree Circle is free to use the funds provided for its own purposes". As you wrote: it may be the case that no stable coin actually is stable.
  - gruez 6y ago
    >it may be the case that no stable coin actually is stable. gemini dollars, maybe?

tehlike 6y ago

The argument only provides support for the lows. Tether backing is not just dollar. They recursively use bitcoin as part of their reserve. Bitcoin price rises, and they print more usdt to buy more btc. It's hard to say how much btc would drop or pump. Tether bootstrapped crypto demand, even if it was done so fraudulently

rawtxapp 6y ago
For what it's worth makerdao also created DAI backed by crypto collateral (and stablecoins) and right now the outstanding debt from maker alone is like 2B+ and growing pretty rapidly (daistats.com). I know for a fact that many traders are using makerdao to leverage their crypto holdings to buy even more crypto, so there's definitely a circular money pump that happens (for example: WBTC-A vaults have an outstanding 240M$ debt, presumably significant chunk is used to buy back more BTC).

maytc 6y ago

Given tether makes up more than ~60% of the bitcoin liquidity I would argue otherwise... https://coinlib.io/coin/BTC/Bitcoin https://coinlib.io/coin/BTC/Bitcoin

csomar 6y ago

> For comparison there are 7.5 bn USDC circulating and these are emitted by Centre/Coinbase and these are known to be real (Coinbase being an HN unicorn to soon do its IPO). Fun fact: USDC is not backed by real USD. Circle is using these dollars for its trading purposes and that's actually in the ToS. Pretty much no stable coin is: https://omarabid.com/usd-stable-coins https://omarabid.com/usd-stable-coins

TacticalCoder 6y ago
> Fun fact: USDC is not backed by real USD. Circle is using these dollars for its trading purposes and that's actually in the ToS. That is really weird. From the link you gave: "you agree Circle is free to use the funds provided for its own purposes". As you wrote: it may be the case that no stable coin actually is stable.
- gruez 6y ago
  >it may be the case that no stable coin actually is stable. gemini dollars, maybe?