10 ms·

Most of this chatlog is "you" adding more noise than is necessary for this transaction.

_coveredInBees 6y ago
Exactly. I was cringing so hard because he kept engaging with the rep on lines of questioning that were so obviously going to go down the path they did. I've cancelled my NYT account in the past and it was rather painless because I was consistent in my response and communicated clearly that I just wanted to unsubscribe. I've since renewed my subscription, but cancelling service with an ISP or even Amazon Prime at this point is way more annoying.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- bscphil 6y ago
  It also took exactly 15 minutes between encountering the live agent for the first time and the final sign-off. That's nothing given that they had to communicate via live text chat. And as others have pointed out in this thread, it's actually possible to cancel just by filling out a form, not that this excuses the dark patterns and endless offers. This reads as someone determined to get something juicy they could screenshot, or else someone who was already so annoyed from having to find the cancellation method on the site that they let it cloud their responses to what was a relatively painless process.
  - Helloworldboy 6y ago
    It’s only possible in california to cancel via web form
jwilber 6y ago
Maybe, but there still remains the issue that such a pointless chat is even required to cancel in the first place.
- xyse53 6y ago
  The interaction didn't seem that bad to me. The business is hurting and valuable. I can kind of see how you'd get there and want "customer retention specialists", who are people that have a job they don't like where they are probably measured on some metric related to how many cancels they let through. Sucks all around, but again I was expecting so much worse. A single chat interaction? Not horrible.
  - kortilla 6y ago
    > The business is hurting and valuable. That’s not your problem if you want to cancel.
- a254613e 6y ago
  Except that it's not required at all, as confirmed by multiple people already in this thread. OP chose the chat route, was complaining to the virtual chat bot for a whole page in the screenshot, then presented technical issues as a reason for cancelation - which the human support rep correctly tried to help the customer with, and customer engaged in that discussion, and once OP said they want the subscription canceled regardless (just a few messages later) it got canceled. If you were to run a business, and a customer tells you the only reason they no longer wish to remain your customer is because of technical issues that you know how to solve, would you just try to help them, or would you ignore it? Let's say someone disabled javascript in their browser, and your website doesn't work because of it, would you just cancel their subscription or would you offer to help and if they still insist on canceling it then cancel it like the rep in the screenshot did?
soneil 6y ago
For an interesting definition of "most"? I see, what, 3 lines that weren't direct answers to direct questions? One of those was pretty legitimate feedback, which seems sensible when the rep tells you feedback is why they're asking. Another is just asking for a copy of the chatlog.
- 1shooner 6y ago
  Almost the entire conversation is the customer complaining, then the rep needing to respond to it.
websites2323 6y ago
Yes. Stick to the business at hand: this is who I am, this is how you can look me up in your system, this is what I want to do. Feedback doesn't help, they're not going to take your advice, don't waste your time. For example: "Please tell us the reason for your call today?" Should be met with the answer, "Please cancel my subscription." "May I ask why you want to cancel?" "Please cancel my subscription." "Have you ever used reader mode?" "Please cancel my subscription."
- Ygg2 6y ago
  Ah, yes. Treat others as souless automatons option.
  - function_seven 6y ago
    Well, yeah. They're following a flowchart that labels common objections and the responses to overcome them. You're in a pipeline. Your job is to get to the end of that pipeline without being shunted off in long and meandering side paths.
  - doubleunplussed 6y ago
    Even though the individuals are humans, they are reading a script given to them by a soulless automaton (also made of humans, but the result of an inhuman optimisation process). Those writing the script are taking advantage of your aversion to skip social graces when they decide what questions the low-ranking representative will ask you. The only winning move is not to play. It's not the individual's fault, but neither is it fair on you to play along. Be polite, but direct, and don't play the game.
    - Ygg2 6y ago
      Right. But that just means company is wasting your time and manipulating you. The script they have doesn't work anymore. If it's designed to make you stay it has backfired in spectacular way.
    - byecomputer 6y ago
cbozeman 6y ago
When I tell someone I want to cancel a service, the only thing I ever want to hear is, "Yes sir." followed by, "All done, sir." And maybe a, "Have a nice day, sir." Period. I give you money. You give me a service. I stop giving you money. You stop giving me the service. Its just that goddamn simple.
- vntok 6y ago
  Nonsense. If your situation was generalizable, then no one would accept rebates or gifts offered during the cancelation process - yet many do, which is why sales rep continue to offer them.
  - bscphil 6y ago
    I think it's a little more complicated than that. Back before prices got better, my parents used to call up the cable company every year to "cancel our service". Why? "It's too expensive." Eventually they would "give in" after shaving $20 off our monthly bill. This of course was their intent the whole time: they saved thousands of dollars over about 10 years as a result. Very few people actually determined to cancel are going to be convinced by something like this, I suspect. There's a whole cottage industry of mostly older, upper-middle class folks who call customer service lines once a year to get their rebate. I find the whole game rather reprehensible (on the part of the companies that allow it). It constitutes a kind of wealth transfer to the people who have the free time, energy, and ability to play the game. I'd much rather these companies just reduce the price across the board towards the "average" payment, and stick to their guns with the people who call in. This would eliminate so many hours of pointless work and frustration.
    - Ekaros 6y ago
      And correct answer after first cycle is. "All done! Service will end tomorrow!". And if customer tries to cancel, just tell them the new higher price with not leeway any more for them.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      > It constitutes a kind of wealth transfer to the people who have the free time, energy, and ability to play the game. It's price discrimination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination Usually, it's not worth the time to haggle over people to figure out the most they are willing to pay for low margin retail goods, so you don't see it at Walmart or the grocery store. But for high margin goods, such as cars, real estate, B2B sales etc, each buyer has a different amount they are willing to pay, and so you want to try and capture as much of everyone's capacity to pay as possible. Actually, come to think of it, low margin retail and grocery does it too with coupons and whatnot that some people are willing to spend time on and others are not.
sundvor 6y ago
Agree 100%. It sounded a bit like a tech request on how to get rid of ads, which established some scope for agent to assist. I'm subscribed to NYT and WP to help support journalism; I'm using Samsung's Internet browser which is just great - no ads, easy on the battery, and a dark mode to boot.

Exactly. I was cringing so hard because he kept engaging with the rep on lines of questioning that were so obviously going to go down the path they did. I've cancelled my NYT account in the past and it was rather painless because I was consistent in my response and communicated clearly that I just wanted to unsubscribe. I've since renewed my subscription, but cancelling service with an ISP or even Amazon Prime at this point is way more annoying.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
bscphil 6y ago
It also took exactly 15 minutes between encountering the live agent for the first time and the final sign-off. That's nothing given that they had to communicate via live text chat. And as others have pointed out in this thread, it's actually possible to cancel just by filling out a form, not that this excuses the dark patterns and endless offers. This reads as someone determined to get something juicy they could screenshot, or else someone who was already so annoyed from having to find the cancellation method on the site that they let it cloud their responses to what was a relatively painless process.
- Helloworldboy 6y ago
  It’s only possible in california to cancel via web form

jwilber 6y ago

Maybe, but there still remains the issue that such a pointless chat is even required to cancel in the first place.

xyse53 6y ago
The interaction didn't seem that bad to me. The business is hurting and valuable. I can kind of see how you'd get there and want "customer retention specialists", who are people that have a job they don't like where they are probably measured on some metric related to how many cancels they let through. Sucks all around, but again I was expecting so much worse. A single chat interaction? Not horrible.
- kortilla 6y ago
  > The business is hurting and valuable. That’s not your problem if you want to cancel.
a254613e 6y ago
Except that it's not required at all, as confirmed by multiple people already in this thread. OP chose the chat route, was complaining to the virtual chat bot for a whole page in the screenshot, then presented technical issues as a reason for cancelation - which the human support rep correctly tried to help the customer with, and customer engaged in that discussion, and once OP said they want the subscription canceled regardless (just a few messages later) it got canceled. If you were to run a business, and a customer tells you the only reason they no longer wish to remain your customer is because of technical issues that you know how to solve, would you just try to help them, or would you ignore it? Let's say someone disabled javascript in their browser, and your website doesn't work because of it, would you just cancel their subscription or would you offer to help and if they still insist on canceling it then cancel it like the rep in the screenshot did?

soneil 6y ago

For an interesting definition of "most"? I see, what, 3 lines that weren't direct answers to direct questions? One of those was pretty legitimate feedback, which seems sensible when the rep tells you feedback is why they're asking. Another is just asking for a copy of the chatlog.

1shooner 6y ago
Almost the entire conversation is the customer complaining, then the rep needing to respond to it.

websites2323 6y ago

Yes. Stick to the business at hand: this is who I am, this is how you can look me up in your system, this is what I want to do. Feedback doesn't help, they're not going to take your advice, don't waste your time. For example: "Please tell us the reason for your call today?" Should be met with the answer, "Please cancel my subscription." "May I ask why you want to cancel?" "Please cancel my subscription." "Have you ever used reader mode?" "Please cancel my subscription."

Ygg2 6y ago
Ah, yes. Treat others as souless automatons option.
- function_seven 6y ago
  Well, yeah. They're following a flowchart that labels common objections and the responses to overcome them. You're in a pipeline. Your job is to get to the end of that pipeline without being shunted off in long and meandering side paths.
- doubleunplussed 6y ago
  Even though the individuals are humans, they are reading a script given to them by a soulless automaton (also made of humans, but the result of an inhuman optimisation process). Those writing the script are taking advantage of your aversion to skip social graces when they decide what questions the low-ranking representative will ask you. The only winning move is not to play. It's not the individual's fault, but neither is it fair on you to play along. Be polite, but direct, and don't play the game.
  - Ygg2 6y ago
    Right. But that just means company is wasting your time and manipulating you. The script they have doesn't work anymore. If it's designed to make you stay it has backfired in spectacular way.
  - byecomputer 6y ago

cbozeman 6y ago

When I tell someone I want to cancel a service, the only thing I ever want to hear is, "Yes sir." followed by, "All done, sir." And maybe a, "Have a nice day, sir." Period. I give you money. You give me a service. I stop giving you money. You stop giving me the service. Its just that goddamn simple.

vntok 6y ago
Nonsense. If your situation was generalizable, then no one would accept rebates or gifts offered during the cancelation process - yet many do, which is why sales rep continue to offer them.
- bscphil 6y ago
  I think it's a little more complicated than that. Back before prices got better, my parents used to call up the cable company every year to "cancel our service". Why? "It's too expensive." Eventually they would "give in" after shaving $20 off our monthly bill. This of course was their intent the whole time: they saved thousands of dollars over about 10 years as a result. Very few people actually determined to cancel are going to be convinced by something like this, I suspect. There's a whole cottage industry of mostly older, upper-middle class folks who call customer service lines once a year to get their rebate. I find the whole game rather reprehensible (on the part of the companies that allow it). It constitutes a kind of wealth transfer to the people who have the free time, energy, and ability to play the game. I'd much rather these companies just reduce the price across the board towards the "average" payment, and stick to their guns with the people who call in. This would eliminate so many hours of pointless work and frustration.
  - Ekaros 6y ago
    And correct answer after first cycle is. "All done! Service will end tomorrow!". And if customer tries to cancel, just tell them the new higher price with not leeway any more for them.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    > It constitutes a kind of wealth transfer to the people who have the free time, energy, and ability to play the game. It's price discrimination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination Usually, it's not worth the time to haggle over people to figure out the most they are willing to pay for low margin retail goods, so you don't see it at Walmart or the grocery store. But for high margin goods, such as cars, real estate, B2B sales etc, each buyer has a different amount they are willing to pay, and so you want to try and capture as much of everyone's capacity to pay as possible. Actually, come to think of it, low margin retail and grocery does it too with coupons and whatnot that some people are willing to spend time on and others are not.

sundvor 6y ago

Agree 100%. It sounded a bit like a tech request on how to get rid of ads, which established some scope for agent to assist. I'm subscribed to NYT and WP to help support journalism; I'm using Samsung's Internet browser which is just great - no ads, easy on the battery, and a dark mode to boot.