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Why, though? Why does everything need to become like Android? Why can’t Apple and its users do their own thing? What’s with this Borg mentality HN has when it

Why, though? Why does everything need to become like Android? Why can’t Apple and its users do their own thing? What’s with this Borg mentality HN has when it comes to Apple? Assimilate or perish. I genuinely think it’s deep seated envy, frankly.

echelon 6y ago
> Why does everything need to become like Android? It's not like Android. It's like computers before iPhone. > Why can’t Apple and its users do their own thing? Because if I want my startup to succeed, I have to have an iPhone app. Apple makes this hostile to everyone that isn't them. You need design approval to push updates, you can't deploy when you want. You have to pay the 30% tax and use Apple payment rails. You have to support Apple sign-in, which means you can never form a customer relationship. (It's fine for Apple to have that relationship, but not anyone else.) Taking advantage of the rise of the internet, Apple has used their incredible market position to elbow their way into every aspect of business. If you want to reach "their" customers, you have to play by the arbitrary rules they set. Rules that defend their market position and extract tax. > What’s with this Borg mentality HN has when it comes to Apple? What’s with this Borg mentality HN has when it comes to Apple fans? > Assimilate or perish. Assimilate or perish, the Apple fans tell other businesses and entrepreneurs. > I genuinely think it’s deep seated envy, frankly. It's anger that we're being abused by a gorilla-sized mobster and that nothing has been done to protect us. It's anger that the open computing and world wide web of the 90s and 2000s has been grifted and coopted by Google and Apple. That computing has been redefined as something proprietary. They've taken advantage of open source and open Internet, and leveraged that to capture and control the market. Software freedoms that enabled their rise are now dying because of these companies. They're making it harder for us to succeed and taking more of the pie for themselves. They got theirs, and now they're putting it under lock and key. Call it envy all you want. It's not fair for computing to be owned by the incumbents. Would you still have this opinion if history had been different and Microsoft's Windows Phone had taken the place of the iPhone? Would you be happy with the Windows Store, Microsoft's 30% fee, Microsoft's design guidelines, etc? Replace everything Apple you own with Microsoft, couple it with the same proprietary stance, and tell me you'd be happy. Take that thought process one step further and disregard the company altogether. It doesn't matter who is doing these things. Apple is immaterial. The behavior is bad and it shouldn't be allowed. This is why the DOJ hammered Microsoft -- rightly so -- and will do the same to Apple.
- kmlx 6y ago
  > Because if I want my startup to succeed, I have to have an iPhone app. This is false.
- leadingthenet 6y ago
  Oh God, the same stupid arguments once again. Always the comparisons to Microsoft and/or the Mafia. I don’t care that you think you need Apple users to get your startup off the ground. Apple and its users owe you nothing. You do not have some divine right to distribute whatever software you want to these users. > Would you be happy with the Windows Store, Microsoft's 30% fee, Microsoft's design guidelines, etc? Yes. Because alternatives, including more open ones, exist. And they have a higher (almost dominant) market presence. Frankly, this should be the end of this discussion, but you guys are on a religious crusade.
  - abhinav22 6y ago
    Thank you for all your comments. So much stupidity in this thread otherwise!
    - leadingthenet 6y ago
      Appreciate the moral support. I wish I could be nicer, more respectful, and take the high road, but some of these comments...
- wyre 6y ago
  > Because if I want my startup to succeed, I have to have an iPhone app. The only person responsible for your success is you. There are plenty of other things successful startups need besides an iOS app but you’re targeting your anger at Apple instead? > Apple makes this hostile to everyone that isn't them. Apple isn’t hostile to its users. Sure, Apple is hostile to developers and it’s understandable to be upset about that. As an Apple user I appreciate and trust their protection over the OS for this very personal device that goes in my pocket. I appreciate Apple ID gives me a layer of privacy between me and the developer. > Would you still have this opinion if history had been different and Microsoft's Windows Phone had taken the place of the iPhone I have no idea. I’ve never used a Windows phone. If my choice was between Google’s Android and a Windows phone with the same consumer protections that Apple gives me now, yes, I would have a Windows phone. That said, Apple is successful because they did things that Microsoft wasn’t doing and I find this premise silly.
smoldesu 6y ago
Apple is following in the footsteps of fallen titans. It should come as no surprise when the law comes down hard on the worlds most valuable company.

echelon 6y ago

> Why does everything need to become like Android? It's not like Android. It's like computers before iPhone. > Why can’t Apple and its users do their own thing? Because if I want my startup to succeed, I have to have an iPhone app. Apple makes this hostile to everyone that isn't them. You need design approval to push updates, you can't deploy when you want. You have to pay the 30% tax and use Apple payment rails. You have to support Apple sign-in, which means you can never form a customer relationship. (It's fine for Apple to have that relationship, but not anyone else.) Taking advantage of the rise of the internet, Apple has used their incredible market position to elbow their way into every aspect of business. If you want to reach "their" customers, you have to play by the arbitrary rules they set. Rules that defend their market position and extract tax. > What’s with this Borg mentality HN has when it comes to Apple? What’s with this Borg mentality HN has when it comes to Apple fans? > Assimilate or perish. Assimilate or perish, the Apple fans tell other businesses and entrepreneurs. > I genuinely think it’s deep seated envy, frankly. It's anger that we're being abused by a gorilla-sized mobster and that nothing has been done to protect us. It's anger that the open computing and world wide web of the 90s and 2000s has been grifted and coopted by Google and Apple. That computing has been redefined as something proprietary. They've taken advantage of open source and open Internet, and leveraged that to capture and control the market. Software freedoms that enabled their rise are now dying because of these companies. They're making it harder for us to succeed and taking more of the pie for themselves. They got theirs, and now they're putting it under lock and key. Call it envy all you want. It's not fair for computing to be owned by the incumbents. Would you still have this opinion if history had been different and Microsoft's Windows Phone had taken the place of the iPhone? Would you be happy with the Windows Store, Microsoft's 30% fee, Microsoft's design guidelines, etc? Replace everything Apple you own with Microsoft, couple it with the same proprietary stance, and tell me you'd be happy. Take that thought process one step further and disregard the company altogether. It doesn't matter who is doing these things. Apple is immaterial. The behavior is bad and it shouldn't be allowed. This is why the DOJ hammered Microsoft -- rightly so -- and will do the same to Apple.

kmlx 6y ago
> Because if I want my startup to succeed, I have to have an iPhone app. This is false.
leadingthenet 6y ago
Oh God, the same stupid arguments once again. Always the comparisons to Microsoft and/or the Mafia. I don’t care that you think you need Apple users to get your startup off the ground. Apple and its users owe you nothing. You do not have some divine right to distribute whatever software you want to these users. > Would you be happy with the Windows Store, Microsoft's 30% fee, Microsoft's design guidelines, etc? Yes. Because alternatives, including more open ones, exist. And they have a higher (almost dominant) market presence. Frankly, this should be the end of this discussion, but you guys are on a religious crusade.
- abhinav22 6y ago
  Thank you for all your comments. So much stupidity in this thread otherwise!
  - leadingthenet 6y ago
    Appreciate the moral support. I wish I could be nicer, more respectful, and take the high road, but some of these comments...
wyre 6y ago
> Because if I want my startup to succeed, I have to have an iPhone app. The only person responsible for your success is you. There are plenty of other things successful startups need besides an iOS app but you’re targeting your anger at Apple instead? > Apple makes this hostile to everyone that isn't them. Apple isn’t hostile to its users. Sure, Apple is hostile to developers and it’s understandable to be upset about that. As an Apple user I appreciate and trust their protection over the OS for this very personal device that goes in my pocket. I appreciate Apple ID gives me a layer of privacy between me and the developer. > Would you still have this opinion if history had been different and Microsoft's Windows Phone had taken the place of the iPhone I have no idea. I’ve never used a Windows phone. If my choice was between Google’s Android and a Windows phone with the same consumer protections that Apple gives me now, yes, I would have a Windows phone. That said, Apple is successful because they did things that Microsoft wasn’t doing and I find this premise silly.

smoldesu 6y ago

Apple is following in the footsteps of fallen titans. It should come as no surprise when the law comes down hard on the worlds most valuable company.