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In Texas' usual weather, an electric heat pump would be much more efficient than burning the gas for heat directly.

by sp332 6y ago

toomuchtodo 6y ago
Prescient post from November 2019 about transitioning Texas to heat pumps and the benefits of doing so. https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/a-texas-sized-gas-for-electricity-swap https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/a-texas-sized-g... > According to a paper from Pecan Street, an Austin-based energy research organization, the transition would reduce climate-warming pollution, save Texas households up to $452 annually on their utility bills, and flip the state from a summer-peaking to a winter-peaking system. And that winter peak would be “nothing the grid couldn’t evolve to handle,” according to co-author Joshua Rhodes.
- jounker 6y ago
  Not terribly prescient. The current cold snap has even shut down coal and nuclear plants in Texas.
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    I'm discouraged no one is asking about the elephant in the room - which is why the polar vortex has shifted to the extent that these events are happening at all. It's not just Texas. There has been extreme cold across Europe, and unseasonable warmth across parts of the Arctic. Of course it's far too late to fix the primary cause now. But it's still true that extreme weather events caused by climatic instability were being discussed more than twenty years ago. Adding more of Power Source [X] is a bandaid. The real problem is structural, and it could have been solved more cheaply back then.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- maxerickson 6y ago
  People with heat pumps would all be running them as resistance heaters in the weather they are having right now. In that mode less of the energy in the gas becomes heat in the home (good furnaces are really good).
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    Quality heat pumps will extract heat from the air even below 0F, and they are more efficient than resistive heat (disclaimer: I have a high quality heat pump). It's not a silver bullet, but combined with weatherizing homes properly, it would've reduced peak demand on ERCOT (although ERCOT should probably have pressure applied on it to force natural gas generation and infrastructure to winterize so that this infrastructure can continue to operate during extended cold snaps, because it's clear in the decade(s) ERCOT has known this is an issue [1], they haven't done a damn thing to address the problem). [1] https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Texas-grid-again-faces-scrutiny-over-cold-15955392.php https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Tex... ("A federal report that summer recommended steps including installing heating elements around pipes and increasing the amount of reserve power available before storms, noting many of those same warnings were issued after similar blackouts 22 years earlier and had gone unheeded.")
    - maxerickson 6y ago
      It's pretty predictable that people in (relatively warm) Texas would buy cheaper models that cut out at higher temperatures. Weatherization makes any heating and cooling more efficient too, so everyone should assess for improvements.
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        I'm just advocating for (or, attempting to) improved policy and planning around energy consumption and infrastructure. Penny wise pound foolish is getting old.
  - throw0101a 6y ago
    Mitsubishi units can still extract energy down to -13F / -25C: * https://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/benefits/hyper-heating https://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/benefits/hyper-heating These are designed in Japan, where they often have earthquakes, and so any flammable materials (natural gas) seem not to be used for heating. Things can get quite chilly up north: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikubetsu,_Hokkaido https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikubetsu,_Hokkaido * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokkaidō#Climate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokkaidō#Climate AFAICT, the units do not have external thermometers, but rather look at the refrigerant temperature. So if the piping from the unit into your wall is short, then the refrigerant isn't exposed to the cold that much, and so may not effected as much by air temperature.
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  An electric heat pump would not be cheaper than natural gas at heating. If you follow the rabbit hole of links from what you linked to, it comes to https://www.ideasmiths.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/IdeaSmiths-Final-Report-2019.pdf https://www.ideasmiths.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/IdeaSm... and the claim there is that summer cooling would be cheaper with newer more efficient heat pumps, and result in the annual heating/cooling expense being lower. But it’s not drawing a direct comparison of the cost of natural gas heat versus electric heat pump heat.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    https://www.aceee.org/sites/default/files/publications/researchreports/a1602.pdf https://www.aceee.org/sites/default/files/publications/resea... > Our analysis finds that electric heat pumps generally use less energy in warm states and have moderately positive economics in these states if a heat pump can replace both the furnace and a central air conditioner. > Based on our analysis, we find that electric heat pumps have higher equipment and installation costs than gas furnaces and that electricity is generally more expensive per Btu than natural gas. As a result, in all of the comparisons the gas furnace has a lower life cycle cost for homes without central air-conditioning. However, if a central air conditioner can be replaced with a heat pump, the high-efficiency heat pump has lower life cycle costs in climates from Virginia southward as well as in the Northwest. This is shown by an analysis that credits the avoided cost of a central air conditioner and also includes cooling-energy savings from replacing a central air conditioner meeting federal minimum efficiency standards—a seasonal energy efficiency ratio (SEER) of 13 in the North and a SEER of 14 in the South—with a higher-efficiency heat pump > As discussed above, our analysis is only for existing homes. The results may be more positive toward heat pumps for new homes, as most new homes have air-conditioning and the cost of supplying gas to the home can be avoided by installing heat pumps. Note that this is a few years old (2016), and more efficient heat pumps improve the economics.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

In Texas' usual weather, an electric heat pump would be much more efficient than burning the gas for heat directly.

by sp332 6y ago

In Texas' usual weather, an electric heat pump would be much more efficient than burning the gas for heat directly.

Prescient post from November 2019 about transitioning Texas to heat pumps and the benefits of doing so. https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/a-texas-sized-gas-for-electricity-swap https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/a-texas-sized-g... > According to a paper from Pecan Street, an Austin-based energy research organization, the transition would reduce climate-warming pollution, save Texas households up to $452 annually on their utility bills, and flip the state from a summer-peaking to a winter-peaking system. And that winter peak would be “nothing the grid couldn’t evolve to handle,” according to co-author Joshua Rhodes.

jounker 6y ago
Not terribly prescient. The current cold snap has even shut down coal and nuclear plants in Texas.
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  I'm discouraged no one is asking about the elephant in the room - which is why the polar vortex has shifted to the extent that these events are happening at all. It's not just Texas. There has been extreme cold across Europe, and unseasonable warmth across parts of the Arctic. Of course it's far too late to fix the primary cause now. But it's still true that extreme weather events caused by climatic instability were being discussed more than twenty years ago. Adding more of Power Source [X] is a bandaid. The real problem is structural, and it could have been solved more cheaply back then.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
maxerickson 6y ago
People with heat pumps would all be running them as resistance heaters in the weather they are having right now. In that mode less of the energy in the gas becomes heat in the home (good furnaces are really good).
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  Quality heat pumps will extract heat from the air even below 0F, and they are more efficient than resistive heat (disclaimer: I have a high quality heat pump). It's not a silver bullet, but combined with weatherizing homes properly, it would've reduced peak demand on ERCOT (although ERCOT should probably have pressure applied on it to force natural gas generation and infrastructure to winterize so that this infrastructure can continue to operate during extended cold snaps, because it's clear in the decade(s) ERCOT has known this is an issue [1], they haven't done a damn thing to address the problem). [1] https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Texas-grid-again-faces-scrutiny-over-cold-15955392.php https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Tex... ("A federal report that summer recommended steps including installing heating elements around pipes and increasing the amount of reserve power available before storms, noting many of those same warnings were issued after similar blackouts 22 years earlier and had gone unheeded.")
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    It's pretty predictable that people in (relatively warm) Texas would buy cheaper models that cut out at higher temperatures. Weatherization makes any heating and cooling more efficient too, so everyone should assess for improvements.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      I'm just advocating for (or, attempting to) improved policy and planning around energy consumption and infrastructure. Penny wise pound foolish is getting old.
- throw0101a 6y ago
  Mitsubishi units can still extract energy down to -13F / -25C: * https://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/benefits/hyper-heating https://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/benefits/hyper-heating These are designed in Japan, where they often have earthquakes, and so any flammable materials (natural gas) seem not to be used for heating. Things can get quite chilly up north: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikubetsu,_Hokkaido https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rikubetsu,_Hokkaido * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokkaidō#Climate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokkaidō#Climate AFAICT, the units do not have external thermometers, but rather look at the refrigerant temperature. So if the piping from the unit into your wall is short, then the refrigerant isn't exposed to the cold that much, and so may not effected as much by air temperature.
throwawaysea 6y ago
An electric heat pump would not be cheaper than natural gas at heating. If you follow the rabbit hole of links from what you linked to, it comes to https://www.ideasmiths.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/IdeaSmiths-Final-Report-2019.pdf https://www.ideasmiths.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/IdeaSm... and the claim there is that summer cooling would be cheaper with newer more efficient heat pumps, and result in the annual heating/cooling expense being lower. But it’s not drawing a direct comparison of the cost of natural gas heat versus electric heat pump heat.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  https://www.aceee.org/sites/default/files/publications/researchreports/a1602.pdf https://www.aceee.org/sites/default/files/publications/resea... > Our analysis finds that electric heat pumps generally use less energy in warm states and have moderately positive economics in these states if a heat pump can replace both the furnace and a central air conditioner. > Based on our analysis, we find that electric heat pumps have higher equipment and installation costs than gas furnaces and that electricity is generally more expensive per Btu than natural gas. As a result, in all of the comparisons the gas furnace has a lower life cycle cost for homes without central air-conditioning. However, if a central air conditioner can be replaced with a heat pump, the high-efficiency heat pump has lower life cycle costs in climates from Virginia southward as well as in the Northwest. This is shown by an analysis that credits the avoided cost of a central air conditioner and also includes cooling-energy savings from replacing a central air conditioner meeting federal minimum efficiency standards—a seasonal energy efficiency ratio (SEER) of 13 in the North and a SEER of 14 in the South—with a higher-efficiency heat pump > As discussed above, our analysis is only for existing homes. The results may be more positive toward heat pumps for new homes, as most new homes have air-conditioning and the cost of supplying gas to the home can be avoided by installing heat pumps. Note that this is a few years old (2016), and more efficient heat pumps improve the economics.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]