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What does 'alt' mean when added as a prefix to left or right to you? What % of people on the right would you consider alt-right? What % of people on the left w

What does 'alt' mean when added as a prefix to left or right to you? What % of people on the right would you consider alt-right? What % of people on the left would you consider alt-left?

lrvick 6y ago
[deleted]
- FFRefresh 6y ago
  I disagree, I think the usage and meaning of 'alt' is in fact complicated. I've asked many other people this same question and they've all given different answers. The core underlying theme is that 'alt' gets used as a pejorative towards your outgroup. Your descriptions of the right here are quite uncharitable, which is a strong signal of your biased thinking. You also conveniently didn't answer my question about % of the right you'd classify as 'alt-right' and the % of the left that you'd classify as 'alt-left'. I suspect the reason you chose not to is because of that same bias. It would make clear that you use 'alt' as a pejorative selectively towards your outgroup.
- tryonenow 6y ago
  This is about as needlessly hyperbolic as claiming that everyone on the left wants to see the US turn to socialism complete with "reeducation" camps for anyone right of center. You lack perspective.
danans 6y ago
> What does 'alt' mean when added as a prefix to left or right to you? Not the GP, but the 'alt' prefix to me seems to invoke the similar usage in the term 'alternative' music like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, etc, which were an 'alternative' to pop music from the 80s and 90s. The prefix suggests a change of type and not just a change of degree. They aren't just "more conservative Republicans". This is why it applies more to the right than the left in today's social discourse, since the spectrum on the left is still more a matter of degree than kind. In the context of the right, this change of type means abandonment of traditional establishment Republican stances like free trade and foreign interventionism in near totality, and the promotion of previously fringe movements within the right like ethnic nationalism (often under the guise of 'economic nationalism').
- FFRefresh 6y ago
  Thanks for offering a perspective on the right. I do disagree about a change of type not happening on the left. I see a very large rift developing on the left around whether to honor classically liberal values or not. I do think the trends in 'alt' usage are predominately aimed at the right as more of a pejorative towards the outgroup, and less of a descriptive term. You can see a snapshot of the vast disparity in usage here: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=Alt-right,alt-left https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=Alt-right,...
  - derekp7 6y ago
    What I imagined years ago is that the Occupy movement and the 99 percenters would become the Democratic's version of the Republican Tea party. You can kind of see this to a degree in AOC and Sanders, if I understand everything correctly.
- xupybd 6y ago
  I think you are correct in your definition. But if you are many people use it incorrectly. It's thrown at most conservatives. While most conservatives find ethnic nationalism appalling. That said nationalism is appealing to a large percentage of conservatives.
klmadfejno 6y ago
alt is not an independent modifier you can assume would play a similar role in a different context. Alt-right is just an alternative rightwing movement. My personal take would be that alt right is a rightwing suberversion of traditional american conservatism. In addition to largely white identity politics, there's also a strong push for anti-establishment, and indifference to traditional norms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right > The term is ill-defined, having been used in different ways by various self-described "alt-rightists", media commentators, and academics. Groups which have been identified as alt-right also espouse white supremacism, white separatism, right-wing populism, anti-immigration, racism, anti-communism, anti-Zionism, antisemitism, Holocaust denial, xenophobia, anti-intellectualism, antifeminism, homophobia, and Islamophobia.
NoodleIncident 6y ago
There isn't a single term used for a political group that you can break down into sub-components and root words to understand what it means. The best you can get will be the origins of the term, but that might no longer be related to how it's used today.
- FFRefresh 6y ago
  Yeah, my impression is that it's predominantly not used to accurately describe the political leanings of a person or group of people, and it's just a quick modifier that can be used by people to paint the target as an extremist who holds anti-social views. If I were to wager a guess, I'd guess that the targets of the term 'alt-right' would rarely accept that description of their politics. Whereas 'right' or 'conservative' or 'social conservative' or similar terms would have a high acceptance rate for those that are being called it. 'Alt' has become a pejorative in everyday use (at least in the liberal circles that I run in).
  - NoodleIncident 6y ago
    You're still (intentionally?) missing the point. There is no such thing as an "accurate descriptor of political leanings". There are words useful to describe groups of people from the outside, words useful for groups of people use to describe themselves, and sometimes they overlap.
    - FFRefresh 6y ago
      I disagree that it isn't possible to accurately describe one's political leanings. I am a proponent of aiming for accuracy when trying to describe other people's politics, and being charitable whenever possible. If I see a group of people using words to describe another group of people in a way that purposely misrepresents them, particularly in a negative way, I think that's something worth calling out. I don't have the nihilistic take that "if you can't 100% accurately describe something, then it's okay to not even try".

What does 'alt' mean when added as a prefix to left or right to you? What % of people on the right would you consider alt-right? What % of people on the left would you consider alt-left?

lrvick 6y ago

[deleted]

FFRefresh 6y ago
I disagree, I think the usage and meaning of 'alt' is in fact complicated. I've asked many other people this same question and they've all given different answers. The core underlying theme is that 'alt' gets used as a pejorative towards your outgroup. Your descriptions of the right here are quite uncharitable, which is a strong signal of your biased thinking. You also conveniently didn't answer my question about % of the right you'd classify as 'alt-right' and the % of the left that you'd classify as 'alt-left'. I suspect the reason you chose not to is because of that same bias. It would make clear that you use 'alt' as a pejorative selectively towards your outgroup.
tryonenow 6y ago
This is about as needlessly hyperbolic as claiming that everyone on the left wants to see the US turn to socialism complete with "reeducation" camps for anyone right of center. You lack perspective.

danans 6y ago

> What does 'alt' mean when added as a prefix to left or right to you? Not the GP, but the 'alt' prefix to me seems to invoke the similar usage in the term 'alternative' music like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, etc, which were an 'alternative' to pop music from the 80s and 90s. The prefix suggests a change of type and not just a change of degree. They aren't just "more conservative Republicans". This is why it applies more to the right than the left in today's social discourse, since the spectrum on the left is still more a matter of degree than kind. In the context of the right, this change of type means abandonment of traditional establishment Republican stances like free trade and foreign interventionism in near totality, and the promotion of previously fringe movements within the right like ethnic nationalism (often under the guise of 'economic nationalism').

FFRefresh 6y ago
Thanks for offering a perspective on the right. I do disagree about a change of type not happening on the left. I see a very large rift developing on the left around whether to honor classically liberal values or not. I do think the trends in 'alt' usage are predominately aimed at the right as more of a pejorative towards the outgroup, and less of a descriptive term. You can see a snapshot of the vast disparity in usage here: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=Alt-right,alt-left https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=Alt-right,...
- derekp7 6y ago
  What I imagined years ago is that the Occupy movement and the 99 percenters would become the Democratic's version of the Republican Tea party. You can kind of see this to a degree in AOC and Sanders, if I understand everything correctly.
xupybd 6y ago
I think you are correct in your definition. But if you are many people use it incorrectly. It's thrown at most conservatives. While most conservatives find ethnic nationalism appalling. That said nationalism is appealing to a large percentage of conservatives.

klmadfejno 6y ago

alt is not an independent modifier you can assume would play a similar role in a different context. Alt-right is just an alternative rightwing movement. My personal take would be that alt right is a rightwing suberversion of traditional american conservatism. In addition to largely white identity politics, there's also a strong push for anti-establishment, and indifference to traditional norms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right > The term is ill-defined, having been used in different ways by various self-described "alt-rightists", media commentators, and academics. Groups which have been identified as alt-right also espouse white supremacism, white separatism, right-wing populism, anti-immigration, racism, anti-communism, anti-Zionism, antisemitism, Holocaust denial, xenophobia, anti-intellectualism, antifeminism, homophobia, and Islamophobia.

NoodleIncident 6y ago

There isn't a single term used for a political group that you can break down into sub-components and root words to understand what it means. The best you can get will be the origins of the term, but that might no longer be related to how it's used today.

FFRefresh 6y ago
Yeah, my impression is that it's predominantly not used to accurately describe the political leanings of a person or group of people, and it's just a quick modifier that can be used by people to paint the target as an extremist who holds anti-social views. If I were to wager a guess, I'd guess that the targets of the term 'alt-right' would rarely accept that description of their politics. Whereas 'right' or 'conservative' or 'social conservative' or similar terms would have a high acceptance rate for those that are being called it. 'Alt' has become a pejorative in everyday use (at least in the liberal circles that I run in).
- NoodleIncident 6y ago
  You're still (intentionally?) missing the point. There is no such thing as an "accurate descriptor of political leanings". There are words useful to describe groups of people from the outside, words useful for groups of people use to describe themselves, and sometimes they overlap.
  - FFRefresh 6y ago
    I disagree that it isn't possible to accurately describe one's political leanings. I am a proponent of aiming for accuracy when trying to describe other people's politics, and being charitable whenever possible. If I see a group of people using words to describe another group of people in a way that purposely misrepresents them, particularly in a negative way, I think that's something worth calling out. I don't have the nihilistic take that "if you can't 100% accurately describe something, then it's okay to not even try".