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From watching Tesla FSD videos on YT it's clear that they aren't competetive with companies like Waymo that use lidar. Edit: This comment once had 3 upvotes lo

From watching Tesla FSD videos on YT it's clear that they aren't competetive with companies like Waymo that use lidar. Edit: This comment once had 3 upvotes lol

natch 6y ago
Waymo drives on (vastly more) restricted routes, so comparing as if they are the same thing is questionable. The problem is several orders of magnitude more simple.
- ra7 6y ago
  Simple? They are operating fully driverless. They don’t need a driver with hands on the wheel like Tesla. In that, you’re right that it’s not the same thing at all. What Tesla is doing is nothing more than glorified driver assistance.
  - natch 6y ago
    Since you’re ok with limited routes and impressed by that, Tesla also doesn’t need a driver on limited routes. Doesn’t even need a passenger. I don’t know how you call it driver assistance when there is no human anywhere near the car, inside or out.
    - ra7 6y ago
      Tesla requires a driver. It constantly nags if you don’t keep your hands on the wheel. I can’t sit in the back seat and let it drive all by itself. That’s why it’s driver assistance.
      - natch 6y ago
        Not for sentry mode. You’re impressed by limited routes, so if you’re going to give Waymo credit for their cargo cult self driving, give Tesla credit too. You can totally sit in the back seat for sentry mode. Or up to 200 feet away.
        ra7 6y ago
        Yeah because pulling out of a parking lot 200 feet away is the same thing as driving a 50 square mile city. This has got to be the weakest argument I’ve ever heard on this topic.
        natch 6y ago
        That's the whole point; now you are getting it. "Yeah because driving a 50 square mile city is the same thing as driving on unrestricted roadways in dozens of countries around the world with totally different road markings, traffic patterns, rules, and even directions of travel… therefore we are justified in saying Waymo is more impressive since Tesla is not doing as well as Waymo with an orders of magnitude larger problem compared to the toy problem Waymo is dealing with." This has got to be the weakest argument I’ve ever heard on this topic. We both know that Tesla's FSD isn't working yet. That goes without saying. Where we disagree is that you think there is something wrong with this picture, when Waymo can solve the problem and Tesla can't. But the problem is a completely different problem, so I am saying the comparison is ridiculous. You are making the comparison as if it is not a ridiculous comparison, when it really is. And Waymo keeps moving the goalposts. They gave up on Austin. They dropped the term "self driving." They limit their left turns and instead do three rights. They are just dumbing down the problem as they go. Easy path, I guess.
        ra7 6y ago
        > Yeah because driving a 50 square mile city is the same thing as driving on unrestricted roadways in dozens of countries around the world with totally different road markings, traffic patterns, rules, and even directions of travel… Except it doesn’t work in the unrestricted conditions you mentioned. It’s going to take years or even decades to make it work everywhere, if it all it works. You don’t get points just having a grander vision. Meanwhile, they keep moving the goalpost on when FSD will actually arrive. They’ve been working on it for years and yet they’re nowhere near confident enough not to require hands on the wheel. That tells me everything. Anyway, this is an argument that’s going nowhere since you seem to undermine by saying Waymo is solving a “toy problem”. So let’s agree to disagree which one is more impressive.
- TulliusCicero 6y ago
  It's also several orders magnitude more simple to say, "our car is reliable most of the time, but drivers must always be ready to take over at a second's notice (or less)". As long as final responsibility rests on the human driver, it's just autonomous testing, not true self-driving. When Tesla owners are allowed to take a nap as their car drives itself, that's when real self driving has arrived.
  - natch 6y ago
    We all already know that though. The point is, they have different approaches to gradual rollout. Waymo is going narrow and deep; Tesla is going broad and deep. Narrow and deep gives better naive demos earlier in the calendar. Like, now. Broad and deep wins later.

From watching Tesla FSD videos on YT it's clear that they aren't competetive with companies like Waymo that use lidar. Edit: This comment once had 3 upvotes lol

natch 6y ago

Waymo drives on (vastly more) restricted routes, so comparing as if they are the same thing is questionable. The problem is several orders of magnitude more simple.

ra7 6y ago
Simple? They are operating fully driverless. They don’t need a driver with hands on the wheel like Tesla. In that, you’re right that it’s not the same thing at all. What Tesla is doing is nothing more than glorified driver assistance.
- natch 6y ago
  Since you’re ok with limited routes and impressed by that, Tesla also doesn’t need a driver on limited routes. Doesn’t even need a passenger. I don’t know how you call it driver assistance when there is no human anywhere near the car, inside or out.
  - ra7 6y ago
    Tesla requires a driver. It constantly nags if you don’t keep your hands on the wheel. I can’t sit in the back seat and let it drive all by itself. That’s why it’s driver assistance.
    - natch 6y ago
      Not for sentry mode. You’re impressed by limited routes, so if you’re going to give Waymo credit for their cargo cult self driving, give Tesla credit too. You can totally sit in the back seat for sentry mode. Or up to 200 feet away.
      - ra7 6y ago
        Yeah because pulling out of a parking lot 200 feet away is the same thing as driving a 50 square mile city. This has got to be the weakest argument I’ve ever heard on this topic.
        natch 6y ago
        That's the whole point; now you are getting it. "Yeah because driving a 50 square mile city is the same thing as driving on unrestricted roadways in dozens of countries around the world with totally different road markings, traffic patterns, rules, and even directions of travel… therefore we are justified in saying Waymo is more impressive since Tesla is not doing as well as Waymo with an orders of magnitude larger problem compared to the toy problem Waymo is dealing with." This has got to be the weakest argument I’ve ever heard on this topic. We both know that Tesla's FSD isn't working yet. That goes without saying. Where we disagree is that you think there is something wrong with this picture, when Waymo can solve the problem and Tesla can't. But the problem is a completely different problem, so I am saying the comparison is ridiculous. You are making the comparison as if it is not a ridiculous comparison, when it really is. And Waymo keeps moving the goalposts. They gave up on Austin. They dropped the term "self driving." They limit their left turns and instead do three rights. They are just dumbing down the problem as they go. Easy path, I guess.
        ra7 6y ago
        > Yeah because driving a 50 square mile city is the same thing as driving on unrestricted roadways in dozens of countries around the world with totally different road markings, traffic patterns, rules, and even directions of travel… Except it doesn’t work in the unrestricted conditions you mentioned. It’s going to take years or even decades to make it work everywhere, if it all it works. You don’t get points just having a grander vision. Meanwhile, they keep moving the goalpost on when FSD will actually arrive. They’ve been working on it for years and yet they’re nowhere near confident enough not to require hands on the wheel. That tells me everything. Anyway, this is an argument that’s going nowhere since you seem to undermine by saying Waymo is solving a “toy problem”. So let’s agree to disagree which one is more impressive.
TulliusCicero 6y ago
It's also several orders magnitude more simple to say, "our car is reliable most of the time, but drivers must always be ready to take over at a second's notice (or less)". As long as final responsibility rests on the human driver, it's just autonomous testing, not true self-driving. When Tesla owners are allowed to take a nap as their car drives itself, that's when real self driving has arrived.
- natch 6y ago
  We all already know that though. The point is, they have different approaches to gradual rollout. Waymo is going narrow and deep; Tesla is going broad and deep. Narrow and deep gives better naive demos earlier in the calendar. Like, now. Broad and deep wins later.