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To be fair, Fortnite did try to get their players to use sideloading to get around the 30% cut Google took. With Apple's more aggresive consumer protection stan

by cmdli 6y ago

To be fair, Fortnite did try to get their players to use sideloading to get around the 30% cut Google took. With Apple's more aggresive consumer protection stance, it wouldn't be surprising for more companies to take that step.

wernercd 6y ago
> aggressive consumer protection stance Aggressive Protection? Sounds like the Mafia. Protection, paid for by you whether you want it or not. Pay the 30% or the mafia's going to break your kneecaps.
- leadingthenet 6y ago
  Don’t be ridiculous, it’s not like Apple’s forcing anyone to publish software on the App Store. Or buy any of their hardware products, for that matter... People and organisations do it because it’s highly profitable, and it’s highly profitable because it’s a trusted and curated platform (unlike the competition). Pretending this is anything like the mafia is childish.
  - josephg 6y ago
    The problem is a lack of detailed choice. I use a lot of Apple’s products because I think they’re generally decent, but it seems like right now I can only make one choice with my phone - Apple or Google. But buying an iPhone not an android phone doesn’t mean I want Apple to control my life. Some examples: I hate it how there’s no adult content allowed in the App Store. Or how if I build my own version of Signal, I have to disable push notifications and things because I haven’t paid apple enough money or something. I hate that last I checked, I can’t buy books in the audible app. If my camera breaks, I apparently can’t get it fixed by anyone except Apple. I hate how Apple charges my bank for the privilege of using the NFC chip in my phone, which I paid for. It’s ridiculous to demand that Epic games makes their own phone if they want to sell me their game. Ideologically, this is capitalism. But capitalism works best for everyone when there’s healthy competition. Wielding their superior phones to enforce a monopoly in other parts of the ecosystem is anticompetitive and anti consumer. And I’m glad someone is finally standing up to them.
    - leadingthenet 6y ago
      The hell are you even on about? Epic making their own phone? Epic can create an alternative store on Android TODAY. If you don’t like your phone, get another one. This is the most ridiculous first world problem, and associated whining, I’ve ever seen. You have alternatives, but you’ve willingly chosen the iPhone. Then you whine that it’s not sufficiently like the competition, despite this being the headline feature of this product and company. It’s completely childish and ridiculous. Let me make this very clear for you: I, as an end user, want Apple to have complete control over its platform. That’s precisely why I bought into this, and not another ecosystem. I do not want sideloading, I do not want alternative stores, I do not want the so-called “healthy competition”. And I should be able to make that choice, as a consumer.
      - josephg 6y ago
        Epic can't create an alternate store on iOS. At all. The headline feature of apple devices for me is that unlike Google, Apple cares about my privacy and security. Apple doesn't offer a devil's bargain with every first party feature. "We can turn this great new thing on - but in exchange, we're going to track your physical movements everywhere. We can turn this other thing on, but we'll record, save and send audio recordings of your life." Right now I have to decide between having control of my device but no control of my data (google). Or having control over my data but no control over my device (apple). That decision is crap. > I, as an end user, want Apple to have complete control over its platform Good for you. In comparison, I want to have more control over the devices I paid good money for. I don't want to live in a digital serfdom, where my only freedoms are those granted to me by the local lord of the cloud. I don't want accidentally offending an algorithm to result in banishment (google). Or, in Apple's case, for the local lord to tax and morally judge every trade that takes place under their watch. If you want to spend your life in Apple's walled garden, great! But I don't want owning the best phone to mean I'm trapped there with you. I demand to be able to enter into a voluntary financial agreement with Epic games if I like. I don't want my own phone to have the power to stop me or levy a tax, just so some Apple VP gets a bigger bonus.
        6y ago
  - wernercd 6y ago
    "It's not like the mafia is forcing you to open a business in Chicago. you don't like it? You can move elsewhere. People move to Chicago because it's highly profitable." Pretending this doesn't have deep parallels to the mafia is childish. Keep pretending and we'll have Tony break your kneecaps. There are plenty of parallels between Apple and the Mafia. Just ask Epic, who's kneecaps were busted for not paying the Don his share.
    - leadingthenet 6y ago
      Their kneecaps were busted for voluntarily entering a contract, and then breaking it as a show of force. A contract absolutely nobody obligated them to sign. A contract they didn’t even have to sign, because they had alternatives. Yes, exactly like the mafia.
      - wernercd 6y ago
        So what alternatives are there to the Apple Store on Apple Devices? Can you point me to an alternative store that I can create, upload, sell and purchase games from that isn't the Apple store? I'll gladly buy some games from the alternative store... because I love competition - unlike the Mafia. If this was a Microsoft phone and Microsoft controlled the market share Apple does? people would be stampeding to force Microsoft to allow competing stores (or browsers, default email applications, etc) on them because anti-competitive behavior. Yet Apple is "magical" and gets a pass for not allowing competition on "their" devices. Even Google allows "sideloading".
        leadingthenet 6y ago
        I hope to God there will never be an alternative App Store on iOS. You want that? Android’s your answer, and you have dozens if not hundreds of vendors to choose from. Why does everything need to be like Android, which has way higher market share anyway? How exactly will that give us more choice, if everything has to be identical? I buy Apple products precisely because Apple has complete control over its devices, not in spite of it. Get it through your thick head.
  - techdragon 6y ago
    The Mafia could have used the same argument... “You don’t have to have your store on this street, plenty of room for your store over in another town if you don’t like paying for our protection”
    - leadingthenet 6y ago
      Except what does Apple do if you don’t publish software on their App Store? Oh yeah ... absolutely fuck all. I swear, if one more idiot brings up the Mafia, as though that were an actually relevant comparison, I’m losing it.

by cmdli 6y ago

wernercd 6y ago

> aggressive consumer protection stance Aggressive Protection? Sounds like the Mafia. Protection, paid for by you whether you want it or not. Pay the 30% or the mafia's going to break your kneecaps.

leadingthenet 6y ago
Don’t be ridiculous, it’s not like Apple’s forcing anyone to publish software on the App Store. Or buy any of their hardware products, for that matter... People and organisations do it because it’s highly profitable, and it’s highly profitable because it’s a trusted and curated platform (unlike the competition). Pretending this is anything like the mafia is childish.
- josephg 6y ago
  The problem is a lack of detailed choice. I use a lot of Apple’s products because I think they’re generally decent, but it seems like right now I can only make one choice with my phone - Apple or Google. But buying an iPhone not an android phone doesn’t mean I want Apple to control my life. Some examples: I hate it how there’s no adult content allowed in the App Store. Or how if I build my own version of Signal, I have to disable push notifications and things because I haven’t paid apple enough money or something. I hate that last I checked, I can’t buy books in the audible app. If my camera breaks, I apparently can’t get it fixed by anyone except Apple. I hate how Apple charges my bank for the privilege of using the NFC chip in my phone, which I paid for. It’s ridiculous to demand that Epic games makes their own phone if they want to sell me their game. Ideologically, this is capitalism. But capitalism works best for everyone when there’s healthy competition. Wielding their superior phones to enforce a monopoly in other parts of the ecosystem is anticompetitive and anti consumer. And I’m glad someone is finally standing up to them.
  - leadingthenet 6y ago
    The hell are you even on about? Epic making their own phone? Epic can create an alternative store on Android TODAY. If you don’t like your phone, get another one. This is the most ridiculous first world problem, and associated whining, I’ve ever seen. You have alternatives, but you’ve willingly chosen the iPhone. Then you whine that it’s not sufficiently like the competition, despite this being the headline feature of this product and company. It’s completely childish and ridiculous. Let me make this very clear for you: I, as an end user, want Apple to have complete control over its platform. That’s precisely why I bought into this, and not another ecosystem. I do not want sideloading, I do not want alternative stores, I do not want the so-called “healthy competition”. And I should be able to make that choice, as a consumer.
    - josephg 6y ago
      Epic can't create an alternate store on iOS. At all. The headline feature of apple devices for me is that unlike Google, Apple cares about my privacy and security. Apple doesn't offer a devil's bargain with every first party feature. "We can turn this great new thing on - but in exchange, we're going to track your physical movements everywhere. We can turn this other thing on, but we'll record, save and send audio recordings of your life." Right now I have to decide between having control of my device but no control of my data (google). Or having control over my data but no control over my device (apple). That decision is crap. > I, as an end user, want Apple to have complete control over its platform Good for you. In comparison, I want to have more control over the devices I paid good money for. I don't want to live in a digital serfdom, where my only freedoms are those granted to me by the local lord of the cloud. I don't want accidentally offending an algorithm to result in banishment (google). Or, in Apple's case, for the local lord to tax and morally judge every trade that takes place under their watch. If you want to spend your life in Apple's walled garden, great! But I don't want owning the best phone to mean I'm trapped there with you. I demand to be able to enter into a voluntary financial agreement with Epic games if I like. I don't want my own phone to have the power to stop me or levy a tax, just so some Apple VP gets a bigger bonus.
      - 6y ago
- wernercd 6y ago
  "It's not like the mafia is forcing you to open a business in Chicago. you don't like it? You can move elsewhere. People move to Chicago because it's highly profitable." Pretending this doesn't have deep parallels to the mafia is childish. Keep pretending and we'll have Tony break your kneecaps. There are plenty of parallels between Apple and the Mafia. Just ask Epic, who's kneecaps were busted for not paying the Don his share.
  - leadingthenet 6y ago
    Their kneecaps were busted for voluntarily entering a contract, and then breaking it as a show of force. A contract absolutely nobody obligated them to sign. A contract they didn’t even have to sign, because they had alternatives. Yes, exactly like the mafia.
    - wernercd 6y ago
      So what alternatives are there to the Apple Store on Apple Devices? Can you point me to an alternative store that I can create, upload, sell and purchase games from that isn't the Apple store? I'll gladly buy some games from the alternative store... because I love competition - unlike the Mafia. If this was a Microsoft phone and Microsoft controlled the market share Apple does? people would be stampeding to force Microsoft to allow competing stores (or browsers, default email applications, etc) on them because anti-competitive behavior. Yet Apple is "magical" and gets a pass for not allowing competition on "their" devices. Even Google allows "sideloading".
      - leadingthenet 6y ago
        I hope to God there will never be an alternative App Store on iOS. You want that? Android’s your answer, and you have dozens if not hundreds of vendors to choose from. Why does everything need to be like Android, which has way higher market share anyway? How exactly will that give us more choice, if everything has to be identical? I buy Apple products precisely because Apple has complete control over its devices, not in spite of it. Get it through your thick head.
- techdragon 6y ago
  The Mafia could have used the same argument... “You don’t have to have your store on this street, plenty of room for your store over in another town if you don’t like paying for our protection”
  - leadingthenet 6y ago
    Except what does Apple do if you don’t publish software on their App Store? Oh yeah ... absolutely fuck all. I swear, if one more idiot brings up the Mafia, as though that were an actually relevant comparison, I’m losing it.