2 ms·

I think this attitude sounds practical and realistic to some ears but acting as though this is a reality we live in and can only cope with it rather than try to

I think this attitude sounds practical and realistic to some ears but acting as though this is a reality we live in and can only cope with it rather than try to change it belies the tremendous progress that has been made. People are flexible and can be taught how to express themselves in ways that aren't harmful. The opposite attitude regards both male and female human beings as mere animal automatons and denies the most essential aspects of being a social and learning human being.

tabtab 6y ago
Re: People are flexible and can be taught how to express themselves in ways that aren't harmful. Only to a degree. Maybe with long and expensive training, men can learn to better control their libido. But that's not likely to happen in practice. The universe doesn't run on "should's" but runs on "is's". I didn't program it. Women need similar training for gossip, by the way. Yes, men gossip also, just as some women sexually harass, but on average women gossip more.
- tehjoker 6y ago
  I can't but help think that this is an incredibly patriarchal attitude. Men respond to their social environment and so do women. If things are regarded as permissible, they are more likely to do them. For example, you need food, but you don't steal food usually. There's a sex drive, but likewise you don't need to steal sex. People need to poop, but they hold it until they reach the toilet. I don't see how these cases are biologically very different. In fact, the food and sanitary cases are more biologically urgent for immediate survival.
  - tabtab 6y ago
    Re: For example, you need food, but you don't steal food usually. I'd argue the biological craving for sex is stronger than hunger in most men who are not outright starving. It's why men often end up ruining their careers over libido slippage but not stealing physical property. Think about that. Why do many ruin their careers from X but not Y? It's not upbringing. Re: I can't but help think that this is an incredibly patriarchal attitude. I'm honestly thinking hard about why you see it that way, and honestly can't. I want to "think right", but my logic seems perfectly sound so far. If you are surrounded by people who have a weakness for something, one shouldn't unnecessarily tempt that weakness. That's blatant common sense to me. Don't turn work life into a discipline contest WITHOUT a good reason.

tabtab 6y ago

Re: People are flexible and can be taught how to express themselves in ways that aren't harmful. Only to a degree. Maybe with long and expensive training, men can learn to better control their libido. But that's not likely to happen in practice. The universe doesn't run on "should's" but runs on "is's". I didn't program it. Women need similar training for gossip, by the way. Yes, men gossip also, just as some women sexually harass, but on average women gossip more.

tehjoker 6y ago
I can't but help think that this is an incredibly patriarchal attitude. Men respond to their social environment and so do women. If things are regarded as permissible, they are more likely to do them. For example, you need food, but you don't steal food usually. There's a sex drive, but likewise you don't need to steal sex. People need to poop, but they hold it until they reach the toilet. I don't see how these cases are biologically very different. In fact, the food and sanitary cases are more biologically urgent for immediate survival.
- tabtab 6y ago
  Re: For example, you need food, but you don't steal food usually. I'd argue the biological craving for sex is stronger than hunger in most men who are not outright starving. It's why men often end up ruining their careers over libido slippage but not stealing physical property. Think about that. Why do many ruin their careers from X but not Y? It's not upbringing. Re: I can't but help think that this is an incredibly patriarchal attitude. I'm honestly thinking hard about why you see it that way, and honestly can't. I want to "think right", but my logic seems perfectly sound so far. If you are surrounded by people who have a weakness for something, one shouldn't unnecessarily tempt that weakness. That's blatant common sense to me. Don't turn work life into a discipline contest WITHOUT a good reason.