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> “Gill’s deceitful and manipulative conduct not only violated numerous industry regulations and rules, but also various securities laws by undermining the inte

> “Gill’s deceitful and manipulative conduct not only violated numerous industry regulations and rules, but also various securities laws by undermining the integrity of the market for GameStop shares,” the suit said. “He caused enormous losses not only to those who bought option contracts, but also to those who fell for Gill’s act and bought GameStop stock during the market frenzy at greatly inflated prices.” As a regular person (with perhaps a higher-than-average exposure to various hazardous memes), this claim look bizarre. Taking out adjectives, a part of this reads: "Gill's <adjectives> conduct not only violated <blah> regulations and rules, but also various securities laws by undermining the integrity of the market for GameStop shares" How do I read this? > Gill's conduct violated regulations and rules. > Gill's conduct undermined the integrity of the market, and therefore violated various securities laws. Was it really Gill's conduct that undermined the integrity of the market? It doesn't look like that to me, but IANAL. As for his conduct violating regulations and rules, I'd really like to read these regulations and rules that govern how someone is expected to conduct themselves on r/WSB and youtube.

silexia 6y ago
I have seen a lot of protests defending Gill. I think there is another side to the story though with many people who lost money buying the stock (selling options is different) based on his advice. Gill is held to a much higher standard than a normal person as he is a licensed security broker. If you look at my comment history on HN, you will see at the time I was pointing out a lot of Redditors were engaging in a pump and dump scheme. Pump and dumps are illegal and regulated by the SEC. If Gill, a licensed security broker, is found to have been a part of this he could end up losing.
- mattnewton 6y ago
  Gill has been advocating GME as an undervalued “value” play for over a year on his YouTube channel, his behavior is pretty different than the reddit pump accounts. But, he is the most visible and de-anonymized target for this kind of lawsuit.
  - LevGoldstein 6y ago
    He continues to believe that it is undervalued, as per his witness testimony to the congressional committee: https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=111207 https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?Event... https://docs.house.gov/meetings/BA/BA00/20210218/111207/HHRG-117-BA00-Wstate-GillK-20210218.pdf https://docs.house.gov/meetings/BA/BA00/20210218/111207/HHRG...
- LargeWu 6y ago
  Don't Pump and Dump schemes generally involve baselessly promoting a stock with the private intention of raising its price artificially? This whole sequence of events seemed like they were pretty transparent about what they were trying to accomplish based on publicly available information.
- perennate 6y ago
  His comments about the company's value were about the fundamentals and, to a very limited extent, about a possible short squeeze: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alntJzg0Um4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alntJzg0Um4 And at most it seems he was giving his opinion about the company. He never said something like "everyone should buy GameStop because it's guaranteed to rise in value".
  - anticristi 6y ago
    Man, he speaks fast!
- davidw 6y ago
  Wasn't it blatantly obvious to pretty much everyone that the whole situation was just totally crazy and a horrible thing to get involved with on either side of the trade? I mean, this guy was on reddit with stupid memes, not in an office in a suit and tie being paid to give people advice.
- foolinaround 6y ago
  Did Gill represent himself as a licensed security broker to his audience?
- Armisael16 6y ago
  It is at best extremely unclear that there was a serious pump-and-dump scheme going on Reddit. To qualify as a pump-and-dump you have to deliberately inflate prices through false or misleading statements. That wasn’t really happening; everyone knew what was happening. People off r/wsb may not have had as clear a picture (and I imagine many of the people who quadrupled the size of the sub in a week may not either), but it’s incredibly hard to blame Gill for other peoples reporting of him. By the end of things he wasn’t even really posting text, just portfolio shots.
- jaybeeayyy 6y ago
  I don't think this case will go anywhere but those are good points. It does sorta look like this was a "kind of" pump and dump market manipulation but I don't know if they will be able to pin it all on him. He's allowed to "give advice" but I don't know if misrepresenting himself as a novice trader would affect that. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I am split between thinking it will go nowhere and a judge "making an example" out of him.
- dilippkumar 6y ago
  > Gill is held to a much higher standard than a normal person as he is a licensed security broker. > ...many people who lost money buying the stock (selling options is different) based on his advice. Out of academic curiosity, how does this work? Mr. Regular Joe wants to buy some stocks for an investment. He worries he doesn't know enough about the market, so he looks for advice from Mrs. Licensed Broker. Mrs Licensed Broker says "Hello Mr. Joe, right now, GME is undervalued. It should be around $20, it is now at $4. By my estimates, it is a good buy. Look, I have put my own money into it because I think it's a good idea". So, Mr. Regular Joe buys GME. Mr. Regular Joe's wife buys GME. Mr. Regular Joe's neighbor buys GME. Mr. Regular Joe's grandmother's pet squirrel buys GME. All of this buying has pushed the stock above $20. Whose actions are Mrs Licensed Broker responsible for? Or do we want to live in a society where every licensed broker who writes opinion pieces on seeking alpha and Wallstreet Journal suddenly realize that reddit could read their article, go crazy and expose them to legal trouble? In such a world, Mr. Regular Joe has to gamble with his money and pick stocks on random, because nobody who understands the market will share information with the Plebeian class.
Animats 6y ago
Here are the rules for registered investment advisors.[1] This was a pump and dump. Those have been around since at least the 19th century. Older ones involved newspapers and newsletters. Newer ones involve social media. The SEC fines people for this regularly. This time, the suckers were people who hadn't seen this a few dozen times yet. [1] https://www.sec.gov/divisions/investment/iaregulation/memoia.htm https://www.sec.gov/divisions/investment/iaregulation/memoia...
- mattnewton 6y ago
  I’m not a lawyer but Gill’s conduct was different from Reddit pumping accounts. He has been posting detailed information about his opinion on GME being undervalued for reasons largely different than a “gamma squeeze” or “short squeeze” for a year on YouTube. He just happens to be the most readily sue-able because of this long post history.
- usmannk 6y ago
  This wasn't a pump and dump though. Even if it never hit WSB the pump (squeeze of the short sellers) would have happened. The defining feature of a pump and dump is a socially engineered pump. Here the social aspect was more like "Look what is going to happen with or without us, we should ride it up. It is also obviously going to crash right after". People from WSB to Scion capital saw this coming, and got in.
- munk-a 6y ago
  I don't think GME will end up being justly classified as a pump and dump scheme - for pump and dumps there needs to be both intent and ability and while there is surely both intent and ability in r/WSB I think an investigation will find that no one with the intent actually had the community presence to sway folks - that said, some rando in the community might end up taking the fall and being a scapegoat.
- choward 6y ago
  Has this guy ever been fined? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3ckpMQ4tgE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3ckpMQ4tgE

silexia 6y ago

I have seen a lot of protests defending Gill. I think there is another side to the story though with many people who lost money buying the stock (selling options is different) based on his advice. Gill is held to a much higher standard than a normal person as he is a licensed security broker. If you look at my comment history on HN, you will see at the time I was pointing out a lot of Redditors were engaging in a pump and dump scheme. Pump and dumps are illegal and regulated by the SEC. If Gill, a licensed security broker, is found to have been a part of this he could end up losing.

mattnewton 6y ago
Gill has been advocating GME as an undervalued “value” play for over a year on his YouTube channel, his behavior is pretty different than the reddit pump accounts. But, he is the most visible and de-anonymized target for this kind of lawsuit.
- LevGoldstein 6y ago
  He continues to believe that it is undervalued, as per his witness testimony to the congressional committee: https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=111207 https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?Event... https://docs.house.gov/meetings/BA/BA00/20210218/111207/HHRG-117-BA00-Wstate-GillK-20210218.pdf https://docs.house.gov/meetings/BA/BA00/20210218/111207/HHRG...
LargeWu 6y ago
Don't Pump and Dump schemes generally involve baselessly promoting a stock with the private intention of raising its price artificially? This whole sequence of events seemed like they were pretty transparent about what they were trying to accomplish based on publicly available information.
perennate 6y ago
His comments about the company's value were about the fundamentals and, to a very limited extent, about a possible short squeeze: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alntJzg0Um4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alntJzg0Um4 And at most it seems he was giving his opinion about the company. He never said something like "everyone should buy GameStop because it's guaranteed to rise in value".
- anticristi 6y ago
  Man, he speaks fast!
davidw 6y ago
Wasn't it blatantly obvious to pretty much everyone that the whole situation was just totally crazy and a horrible thing to get involved with on either side of the trade? I mean, this guy was on reddit with stupid memes, not in an office in a suit and tie being paid to give people advice.
foolinaround 6y ago
Did Gill represent himself as a licensed security broker to his audience?
Armisael16 6y ago
It is at best extremely unclear that there was a serious pump-and-dump scheme going on Reddit. To qualify as a pump-and-dump you have to deliberately inflate prices through false or misleading statements. That wasn’t really happening; everyone knew what was happening. People off r/wsb may not have had as clear a picture (and I imagine many of the people who quadrupled the size of the sub in a week may not either), but it’s incredibly hard to blame Gill for other peoples reporting of him. By the end of things he wasn’t even really posting text, just portfolio shots.
jaybeeayyy 6y ago
I don't think this case will go anywhere but those are good points. It does sorta look like this was a "kind of" pump and dump market manipulation but I don't know if they will be able to pin it all on him. He's allowed to "give advice" but I don't know if misrepresenting himself as a novice trader would affect that. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I am split between thinking it will go nowhere and a judge "making an example" out of him.
dilippkumar 6y ago
> Gill is held to a much higher standard than a normal person as he is a licensed security broker. > ...many people who lost money buying the stock (selling options is different) based on his advice. Out of academic curiosity, how does this work? Mr. Regular Joe wants to buy some stocks for an investment. He worries he doesn't know enough about the market, so he looks for advice from Mrs. Licensed Broker. Mrs Licensed Broker says "Hello Mr. Joe, right now, GME is undervalued. It should be around $20, it is now at $4. By my estimates, it is a good buy. Look, I have put my own money into it because I think it's a good idea". So, Mr. Regular Joe buys GME. Mr. Regular Joe's wife buys GME. Mr. Regular Joe's neighbor buys GME. Mr. Regular Joe's grandmother's pet squirrel buys GME. All of this buying has pushed the stock above $20. Whose actions are Mrs Licensed Broker responsible for? Or do we want to live in a society where every licensed broker who writes opinion pieces on seeking alpha and Wallstreet Journal suddenly realize that reddit could read their article, go crazy and expose them to legal trouble? In such a world, Mr. Regular Joe has to gamble with his money and pick stocks on random, because nobody who understands the market will share information with the Plebeian class.

Animats 6y ago

Here are the rules for registered investment advisors.[1] This was a pump and dump. Those have been around since at least the 19th century. Older ones involved newspapers and newsletters. Newer ones involve social media. The SEC fines people for this regularly. This time, the suckers were people who hadn't seen this a few dozen times yet. [1] https://www.sec.gov/divisions/investment/iaregulation/memoia.htm https://www.sec.gov/divisions/investment/iaregulation/memoia...

mattnewton 6y ago
I’m not a lawyer but Gill’s conduct was different from Reddit pumping accounts. He has been posting detailed information about his opinion on GME being undervalued for reasons largely different than a “gamma squeeze” or “short squeeze” for a year on YouTube. He just happens to be the most readily sue-able because of this long post history.
usmannk 6y ago
This wasn't a pump and dump though. Even if it never hit WSB the pump (squeeze of the short sellers) would have happened. The defining feature of a pump and dump is a socially engineered pump. Here the social aspect was more like "Look what is going to happen with or without us, we should ride it up. It is also obviously going to crash right after". People from WSB to Scion capital saw this coming, and got in.
munk-a 6y ago
I don't think GME will end up being justly classified as a pump and dump scheme - for pump and dumps there needs to be both intent and ability and while there is surely both intent and ability in r/WSB I think an investigation will find that no one with the intent actually had the community presence to sway folks - that said, some rando in the community might end up taking the fall and being a scapegoat.
choward 6y ago
Has this guy ever been fined? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3ckpMQ4tgE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3ckpMQ4tgE