6 ms·

Epic demands Apple do thing = bad for Apple (good for Epic) no way Apple demand Facebook do thing = Good for Apple (bad for FB) yes way So Apple is allowed to

Epic demands Apple do thing = bad for Apple (good for Epic) no way Apple demand Facebook do thing = Good for Apple (bad for FB) yes way So Apple is allowed to get its own way, 100% of the time, no questions asked, what they want is what they get end of (by virtue of holding all the cards and owning the platform they dictate the rules on) How about no? You can play by your rules in your sandbox, but Epic has a right to demand it's allowed a sandbox in the same park, maybe Apple will be forced to change its business if everyone starts playing in Epic's sandbox and consumers decide Apple's policies are rubbish? That's the very definition of "competition" something Apple has avoided for over a decade at this point (as far as iOS inter-competition goes)

ericmay 6y ago
> Epic demands Apple do thing = bad for Apple (good for Epic) no way Epic demands Apple do a thing = bad for Apple, bad for customers (good for Epic) > Apple demand Facebook do thing = Good for Apple (bad for FB) yes way Apple demands Facebook do a thing = Good for Apple, good for customers (bad for Facebook) As a customer in these equations, I'm siding with Apple. > That's the very definition of "competition" something Apple has avoided for over a decade at this point Why do I have to use Epic's game store for Fortnite? Why can't I create my own skins with paint and sell them for whatever I want?
- toinetoine 6y ago
  > Epic demands Apple do a thing = bad for Apple, bad for customers (good for Epic) How is allowing developers to use alternate payment platforms "bad for customers"? Or, if not on the phone, at least to allow them to add funds to their account from the browser/another platform and use it in their iOS app?
  - judge2020 6y ago
    So Apple allows Epic to put their store on iOS, but of course has to allow anyone to put their Store on iOS since otherwise it wouldn't be competitive. What about when Facebook makes Facebook its own marketplace, and the apps it distributes bypass the IDFA and track users without the popup, and of course don't have a privacy nutrition label? What about the hundreds of other $adtech companies bootstrapping their privacy-invasive, scam, and malicious apps (think 'your phone has a virus, call apple support' scams), is that not bad for the consumer? Surely we can just apply the Windows argument of "well they should get antivirus software and stop browsing shady sites" and go about our day having improved the landscape for the tech-literate, while having increased the risk other people take on by using their phone if they don't know the first thing about ensuring the apps they download are safe or privacy-preserving. That's why people buy iPhone - you literally do not have to worry about malicious App Store apps.
  - geocar 6y ago
    > How is allowing developers to use alternate payment platforms "bad for customers"? Because those "alternate payment platforms" don't prioritise consumer protection. Deliveroo did an update their software that wiped out my login settings. They didn't support apple login, so I lost access to my account. They won't recover my email because of a special character in it, and so they continued to charge me for their "plus" service every month, and avoided any emails I tried to send asking to stop (asking me to "log in" to change my payment settings!). Requiring apps use Apple's channel would have protected me from that experience.
- ahiknsr 6y ago
  >Epic demands Apple do a thing = bad for Apple, bad for customers (good for Epic) not bad for all customers. I would like to side-load third party apps on my Iphone. Remember when app store banned a hn reader app because it showed Covid-related submissions[1] [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24410652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24410652
  - aardvarkr 6y ago
    Idk about you but I’ve been sideloading apps for years on my iPhone. There’s an entire subreddit for it if you’re really that interested.
- dralley 6y ago
  How is Epic fighting to reduce Apple's cut of app store proceeds (30%!) bad for customers? At worst it's customer-neutral, at best it could reduce prices.
  - dijit 6y ago
    if you dislike uPlay and Origin, you should probably side with Apple on this.
    - Tom4hawk 6y ago
      I dislike uPlay and Origin and that's why I'm avoiding them (I still have some games on them but something has to be veeery interesting for me to buy it there - I'm even willing to pay more to get same thing on Steam). Why are we all talking about creating more stores? Shouldn't we opt into creating systems API for stores? That way you could choose store application and have products from all repositories (stores) available in there. On most Linuxes you add repository and it doesn't matter if you use official package manager, graphical one, or some unofficial bash script. You are able to install same software.
    - xxs 6y ago
      >if you dislike uPlay and Origin, you should probably side with Apple on this. Can you provide some reasoning behind that. What should I like, so I can dislike uPlay in the first place?
      - dijit 6y ago
        Most people seem to be on board with Steam being their preferred distributor. Any alternatives are met with harsh vitriol- especially ones that are for distributing a a single companies property specifically. Such as EAs origin and Ubisoft’s uPlay (now called Ubisoft Connect). This is common in the gaming community. Full disclosure: I used to work in the studio that developed and maintained uplay. One of the games I worked on was an epic store exclusive (or, wouldn’t launch on steam) and it was met with harsh criticism for that. Many players outright said that they wouldn’t buy the game if it wasn’t on steam. Judging by PC sales, they held true to their word.
- mfost 6y ago
  The ability to purchase a game on iPhone then use it on an Android next because I decided to change phones is invaluable for customers. This is something I'm pretty sure Epic would provide with their own app store.
- xxs 6y ago
  How being locked in apple's ecosystem good for the customers.
AYBABTME 6y ago
What if consumers like it like that: one sandbox curated by Apple?
- dariusj18 6y ago
  Then they continue to use the Apple App store.
  - dleslie 6y ago
    That may not be an option if work-necessary or social-connection-necessary software moves to an alternate store to enjoy less restrictions.
    - kevingadd 6y ago
      At the point where your device has work software on it all bets are off to begin with. Your employer might straight up require you to use an Android phone. What you're describing is your employer using their free choice to decide where to distribute apps. Incidentally, employers already have the ability to distribute custom iOS software for their employees, so your scenario wouldn't happen.
    - Karunamon 6y ago
      Work-necessary software probably involved an enterprise provisioning profile, which for all intents and purposes, gives the holder of the profile full rights to your phone. As for social, why isn't this happening on Android if it's so inevitable?
- m12k 6y ago
  Those consumers should have every right to stay in that sandbox. And the rest of us should have the right to use a different one.
  - covercash 6y ago
    You do have that right, it’s called Android.

ericmay 6y ago

> Epic demands Apple do thing = bad for Apple (good for Epic) no way Epic demands Apple do a thing = bad for Apple, bad for customers (good for Epic) > Apple demand Facebook do thing = Good for Apple (bad for FB) yes way Apple demands Facebook do a thing = Good for Apple, good for customers (bad for Facebook) As a customer in these equations, I'm siding with Apple. > That's the very definition of "competition" something Apple has avoided for over a decade at this point Why do I have to use Epic's game store for Fortnite? Why can't I create my own skins with paint and sell them for whatever I want?

toinetoine 6y ago
> Epic demands Apple do a thing = bad for Apple, bad for customers (good for Epic) How is allowing developers to use alternate payment platforms "bad for customers"? Or, if not on the phone, at least to allow them to add funds to their account from the browser/another platform and use it in their iOS app?
- judge2020 6y ago
  So Apple allows Epic to put their store on iOS, but of course has to allow anyone to put their Store on iOS since otherwise it wouldn't be competitive. What about when Facebook makes Facebook its own marketplace, and the apps it distributes bypass the IDFA and track users without the popup, and of course don't have a privacy nutrition label? What about the hundreds of other $adtech companies bootstrapping their privacy-invasive, scam, and malicious apps (think 'your phone has a virus, call apple support' scams), is that not bad for the consumer? Surely we can just apply the Windows argument of "well they should get antivirus software and stop browsing shady sites" and go about our day having improved the landscape for the tech-literate, while having increased the risk other people take on by using their phone if they don't know the first thing about ensuring the apps they download are safe or privacy-preserving. That's why people buy iPhone - you literally do not have to worry about malicious App Store apps.
- geocar 6y ago
  > How is allowing developers to use alternate payment platforms "bad for customers"? Because those "alternate payment platforms" don't prioritise consumer protection. Deliveroo did an update their software that wiped out my login settings. They didn't support apple login, so I lost access to my account. They won't recover my email because of a special character in it, and so they continued to charge me for their "plus" service every month, and avoided any emails I tried to send asking to stop (asking me to "log in" to change my payment settings!). Requiring apps use Apple's channel would have protected me from that experience.
ahiknsr 6y ago
>Epic demands Apple do a thing = bad for Apple, bad for customers (good for Epic) not bad for all customers. I would like to side-load third party apps on my Iphone. Remember when app store banned a hn reader app because it showed Covid-related submissions[1] [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24410652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24410652
- aardvarkr 6y ago
  Idk about you but I’ve been sideloading apps for years on my iPhone. There’s an entire subreddit for it if you’re really that interested.
dralley 6y ago
How is Epic fighting to reduce Apple's cut of app store proceeds (30%!) bad for customers? At worst it's customer-neutral, at best it could reduce prices.
- dijit 6y ago
  if you dislike uPlay and Origin, you should probably side with Apple on this.
  - Tom4hawk 6y ago
    I dislike uPlay and Origin and that's why I'm avoiding them (I still have some games on them but something has to be veeery interesting for me to buy it there - I'm even willing to pay more to get same thing on Steam). Why are we all talking about creating more stores? Shouldn't we opt into creating systems API for stores? That way you could choose store application and have products from all repositories (stores) available in there. On most Linuxes you add repository and it doesn't matter if you use official package manager, graphical one, or some unofficial bash script. You are able to install same software.
  - xxs 6y ago
    >if you dislike uPlay and Origin, you should probably side with Apple on this. Can you provide some reasoning behind that. What should I like, so I can dislike uPlay in the first place?
    - dijit 6y ago
      Most people seem to be on board with Steam being their preferred distributor. Any alternatives are met with harsh vitriol- especially ones that are for distributing a a single companies property specifically. Such as EAs origin and Ubisoft’s uPlay (now called Ubisoft Connect). This is common in the gaming community. Full disclosure: I used to work in the studio that developed and maintained uplay. One of the games I worked on was an epic store exclusive (or, wouldn’t launch on steam) and it was met with harsh criticism for that. Many players outright said that they wouldn’t buy the game if it wasn’t on steam. Judging by PC sales, they held true to their word.
mfost 6y ago
The ability to purchase a game on iPhone then use it on an Android next because I decided to change phones is invaluable for customers. This is something I'm pretty sure Epic would provide with their own app store.
xxs 6y ago
How being locked in apple's ecosystem good for the customers.

AYBABTME 6y ago

What if consumers like it like that: one sandbox curated by Apple?

dariusj18 6y ago
Then they continue to use the Apple App store.
- dleslie 6y ago
  That may not be an option if work-necessary or social-connection-necessary software moves to an alternate store to enjoy less restrictions.
  - kevingadd 6y ago
    At the point where your device has work software on it all bets are off to begin with. Your employer might straight up require you to use an Android phone. What you're describing is your employer using their free choice to decide where to distribute apps. Incidentally, employers already have the ability to distribute custom iOS software for their employees, so your scenario wouldn't happen.
  - Karunamon 6y ago
    Work-necessary software probably involved an enterprise provisioning profile, which for all intents and purposes, gives the holder of the profile full rights to your phone. As for social, why isn't this happening on Android if it's so inevitable?
m12k 6y ago
Those consumers should have every right to stay in that sandbox. And the rest of us should have the right to use a different one.
- covercash 6y ago
  You do have that right, it’s called Android.