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To me your comment is illustrating your privilege. Prostituting oneself three times to be financially set for life could be a perfectly acceptable trade off for

To me your comment is illustrating your privilege. Prostituting oneself three times to be financially set for life could be a perfectly acceptable trade off for millions of people. The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while.

ceejayoz 6y ago
> The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while. This is an argument for making sure people don't go hungry, not for letting rich people rape people who want a job.
- leesalminen 6y ago
  I’m not here to argue about a hypothetical utopia where nobody on the planet has to make terrible choices to protect their life. I’m just providing a commentary on the state of the world we do live in. Obviously this hypothetical utopia (or any step in that direction) would be superior to what we have now.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    I like to think of "not being raped" as "bare minimum standard to strive for", not "hypothetical utopia".
    - leesalminen 6y ago
      I was referring to the hypothetical utopia of “making sure people don't go hungry”, which is something that has never happened before in human history. But thanks for assuming negative intent.
      - ceejayoz 6y ago
        The world produces enough food to feed everyone. Doubly true if you scope things to the developed world. Triply true if you scope it to the USA only. "No one starves" is just as reasonable a minimum standard to strive for as "no one gets raped". Yes, there are serious implementation details, but there's a big societal will factor at play too.
        tomp 6y ago
        You’re making a strawman argument. The difference is between “being a local singer vs being a superstar”, not “being hungry vs fed”.
        ceejayoz 6y ago
        This thread stems from a comment that stated: > The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while.
        throwawayboise 6y ago
        I took that as a figurative statement. Hungry for success, or for a way out of a perceived poor future outlook, perhaps not literally hungry (for food).
beckman466 6y ago
> To me your comment is illustrating your privilege. Prostituting oneself three times to be financially set for life could be a perfectly acceptable trade off for millions of people. I hear you and get where you're coming from, yet my take is that I want to shift the dynamics of the system for everyone. Systems change, not personal change. Also this isn't about a 'facing a trade off' or sex work, it's about dehumanization and exploitation at the hands of an abusive powerful person. And I want everyone to be 'set for life'. It's absolutely possible.
- leesalminen 6y ago
  > I want to shift the dynamics of the system for everyone. Systems change, not personal change. We can agree here!
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- WalterBright 6y ago
  > And I want everyone to be 'set for life'. It's absolutely possible. Who is going to provide this lifestyle?
wiz21c 6y ago
ain't sure what you mean by acceptable. All of this discussion comes to one question : do you have a choice or not. You have a choice to run a start up and make any sacrifice you think necessary. You don't have a choice to eat something when you're hungry. If you don't have a choice, then you're a victim. (and yes, not everyone has a choice, not everyone just has to work more to get the choice, many people, at some point, don't have a choice; abusing their situation is criminal)
- zajio1am 6y ago
  It is not that you have only two options: 1) Get $100M and anal sex from Bezos 2) Be hungry You can take third option, do not take Bezos's offer, do not make startup and instead do same basic work. So in this case you have choice.
  - wiz21c 6y ago
    yep
TacticalCoder 6y ago
> The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while. "I give you $1 bn if you kill that one kid" and you answer "I'll never kill a kid, no matter how much you pay me" to which I reply: "Your answer is illustrating your privilege". Certainly you see the gigantic sophism in your comment?
- leesalminen 6y ago
  No, actually I think this is a fairly poor analogy. In your example, one is being asked to harm _another_ for their benefit. In the other, one is being asked to harm _one’s self_ for their benefit. However terrible and painful the example is, abstractly, I believe people are free to decide what happens to themselves, but not to others. Murder is universally illegal, while prostitution, arguably, shouldn’t be, and isn’t in many places.
null_deref 6y ago
What are you talking about? In my understanding you're saying everyone that been offered sexual transaction from a superstar is dying for a piece of bread? I think that statement is very detached from reality
ljm 6y ago
That's not what happens though, is it? It's a dumb example. It's more like the abuser forms a bond with the naive kid, and in exchange for their 'loyalty' they are rewarded with a form of insecure attachment where they do what they're told to try and get more approval, and basically just try to live with it as if it's normal. Have a drink with me tonight and I'll make sure to call X about that role tomorrow, alright? Then tomorrow comes and maybe on occasion they actually follow through with the promise, enough to convince you they're being sincere, but most likely there'll be an excuse and another 'request', and more favours. And more dependence and more control. Trying to compare this hellish cycle of abuse to getting fucked in the arse by Bezos for 100 mil is not just absurd, it's completely out of touch with the grim reality the victims spend the rest of their lives contending with.

ceejayoz 6y ago

> The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while. This is an argument for making sure people don't go hungry, not for letting rich people rape people who want a job.

leesalminen 6y ago
I’m not here to argue about a hypothetical utopia where nobody on the planet has to make terrible choices to protect their life. I’m just providing a commentary on the state of the world we do live in. Obviously this hypothetical utopia (or any step in that direction) would be superior to what we have now.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  I like to think of "not being raped" as "bare minimum standard to strive for", not "hypothetical utopia".
  - leesalminen 6y ago
    I was referring to the hypothetical utopia of “making sure people don't go hungry”, which is something that has never happened before in human history. But thanks for assuming negative intent.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      The world produces enough food to feed everyone. Doubly true if you scope things to the developed world. Triply true if you scope it to the USA only. "No one starves" is just as reasonable a minimum standard to strive for as "no one gets raped". Yes, there are serious implementation details, but there's a big societal will factor at play too.
      - tomp 6y ago
        You’re making a strawman argument. The difference is between “being a local singer vs being a superstar”, not “being hungry vs fed”.
        ceejayoz 6y ago
        This thread stems from a comment that stated: > The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while.
        throwawayboise 6y ago
        I took that as a figurative statement. Hungry for success, or for a way out of a perceived poor future outlook, perhaps not literally hungry (for food).

beckman466 6y ago

> To me your comment is illustrating your privilege. Prostituting oneself three times to be financially set for life could be a perfectly acceptable trade off for millions of people. I hear you and get where you're coming from, yet my take is that I want to shift the dynamics of the system for everyone. Systems change, not personal change. Also this isn't about a 'facing a trade off' or sex work, it's about dehumanization and exploitation at the hands of an abusive powerful person. And I want everyone to be 'set for life'. It's absolutely possible.

leesalminen 6y ago
> I want to shift the dynamics of the system for everyone. Systems change, not personal change. We can agree here!
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
WalterBright 6y ago
> And I want everyone to be 'set for life'. It's absolutely possible. Who is going to provide this lifestyle?

wiz21c 6y ago

ain't sure what you mean by acceptable. All of this discussion comes to one question : do you have a choice or not. You have a choice to run a start up and make any sacrifice you think necessary. You don't have a choice to eat something when you're hungry. If you don't have a choice, then you're a victim. (and yes, not everyone has a choice, not everyone just has to work more to get the choice, many people, at some point, don't have a choice; abusing their situation is criminal)

zajio1am 6y ago
It is not that you have only two options: 1) Get $100M and anal sex from Bezos 2) Be hungry You can take third option, do not take Bezos's offer, do not make startup and instead do same basic work. So in this case you have choice.
- wiz21c 6y ago
  yep

TacticalCoder 6y ago

> The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while. "I give you $1 bn if you kill that one kid" and you answer "I'll never kill a kid, no matter how much you pay me" to which I reply: "Your answer is illustrating your privilege". Certainly you see the gigantic sophism in your comment?

leesalminen 6y ago
No, actually I think this is a fairly poor analogy. In your example, one is being asked to harm _another_ for their benefit. In the other, one is being asked to harm _one’s self_ for their benefit. However terrible and painful the example is, abstractly, I believe people are free to decide what happens to themselves, but not to others. Murder is universally illegal, while prostitution, arguably, shouldn’t be, and isn’t in many places.

null_deref 6y ago

What are you talking about? In my understanding you're saying everyone that been offered sexual transaction from a superstar is dying for a piece of bread? I think that statement is very detached from reality

ljm 6y ago

That's not what happens though, is it? It's a dumb example. It's more like the abuser forms a bond with the naive kid, and in exchange for their 'loyalty' they are rewarded with a form of insecure attachment where they do what they're told to try and get more approval, and basically just try to live with it as if it's normal. Have a drink with me tonight and I'll make sure to call X about that role tomorrow, alright? Then tomorrow comes and maybe on occasion they actually follow through with the promise, enough to convince you they're being sincere, but most likely there'll be an excuse and another 'request', and more favours. And more dependence and more control. Trying to compare this hellish cycle of abuse to getting fucked in the arse by Bezos for 100 mil is not just absurd, it's completely out of touch with the grim reality the victims spend the rest of their lives contending with.