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Bitcoin mining operations are generally located where electricity is cheapest. Electricity is cheapest where there is a surplus of hydro power (or other power w

Bitcoin mining operations are generally located where electricity is cheapest. Electricity is cheapest where there is a surplus of hydro power (or other power with very low marginal cost). Where there is a surplus, use of that surplus does not drive other customers to other power sources.

lxgr 6y ago
By that logic, Bitcoin disincentivizes any investment in better grids and more efficient energy storage. Also, any such mining rig could have reasonably been a data center or scientific supercomputer instead.
- temp8964 6y ago
  That's not "logic", that's reality. What you said is pure speculation.
  - lxgr 6y ago
    Indeed, speculation offering a counterpoint to the implicit assumption that renewable energy used by Bitcoin miners would not have any capability of impacting the energy market when used more efficiently.
- lbrindze 6y ago
  I think your second point here often gets missed/understated. That energy and those computers could have been helping forecast severe weather events or working to fold proteins or any other number of useful tasks that don't involve tracking a ledger of other people's wealth.
  - spacedcowboy 6y ago
    The energy perhaps. The "computers" aren't. They're just ASICs that can calculate hashes at a phenomenal rate, they're not general purpose. And the argument about energy isn't straightforward either. Most bitcoin mining sites are set up where there is an excess of energy - when I had miners a while ago, I used a place in Newfoundland, Canada to host them, because of the local hydro dam. The water falls through the sluices or goes via the generators, it's just based on demand.
    - gruez 6y ago
      >The energy perhaps. The "computers" aren't. They're just ASICs that can calculate hashes at a phenomenal rate, they're not general purpose. The chips are made with recent-ish nodes, so the silicon/fab capacity could theoretically be used to make CPUs. edit: looks like at least one bitcoin ASIC maker is using TSMC 7nm, the same process used to make AMD CPUs. [1] https://blog.bitmain.com/en/bitmain-announces-next-generation-7nm-asic-chip-for-sha256-mining-delivering-breakthrough-energy-efficiency/ https://blog.bitmain.com/en/bitmain-announces-next-generatio...
- dnautics 6y ago
  >could have reasonably been a data center or scientific supercomputer instead. Which would have been used for what? Supercomputer centers are having difficulty selling their cpu cycles. A data center for what? Figuring out how to better serve ads?
  - dnautics 6y ago
    Before you say protein folding, I was in on meetings where s major pharma company was considering decommissioning their computational data center in the bay area because it was underused and the real estate was worth too much to leave on the table
cma 6y ago
Doesn't that take away from useful aluminum production?

lxgr 6y ago

By that logic, Bitcoin disincentivizes any investment in better grids and more efficient energy storage. Also, any such mining rig could have reasonably been a data center or scientific supercomputer instead.

temp8964 6y ago
That's not "logic", that's reality. What you said is pure speculation.
- lxgr 6y ago
  Indeed, speculation offering a counterpoint to the implicit assumption that renewable energy used by Bitcoin miners would not have any capability of impacting the energy market when used more efficiently.
lbrindze 6y ago
I think your second point here often gets missed/understated. That energy and those computers could have been helping forecast severe weather events or working to fold proteins or any other number of useful tasks that don't involve tracking a ledger of other people's wealth.
- spacedcowboy 6y ago
  The energy perhaps. The "computers" aren't. They're just ASICs that can calculate hashes at a phenomenal rate, they're not general purpose. And the argument about energy isn't straightforward either. Most bitcoin mining sites are set up where there is an excess of energy - when I had miners a while ago, I used a place in Newfoundland, Canada to host them, because of the local hydro dam. The water falls through the sluices or goes via the generators, it's just based on demand.
  - gruez 6y ago
    >The energy perhaps. The "computers" aren't. They're just ASICs that can calculate hashes at a phenomenal rate, they're not general purpose. The chips are made with recent-ish nodes, so the silicon/fab capacity could theoretically be used to make CPUs. edit: looks like at least one bitcoin ASIC maker is using TSMC 7nm, the same process used to make AMD CPUs. [1] https://blog.bitmain.com/en/bitmain-announces-next-generation-7nm-asic-chip-for-sha256-mining-delivering-breakthrough-energy-efficiency/ https://blog.bitmain.com/en/bitmain-announces-next-generatio...
dnautics 6y ago
>could have reasonably been a data center or scientific supercomputer instead. Which would have been used for what? Supercomputer centers are having difficulty selling their cpu cycles. A data center for what? Figuring out how to better serve ads?
- dnautics 6y ago
  Before you say protein folding, I was in on meetings where s major pharma company was considering decommissioning their computational data center in the bay area because it was underused and the real estate was worth too much to leave on the table

cma 6y ago

Doesn't that take away from useful aluminum production?