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We don't generally have majors/minors in the UK, so perhaps this is part of it. You do a degree in for e.g. Maths/Physics/Mech Eng, and all of your courses are

We don't generally have majors/minors in the UK, so perhaps this is part of it. You do a degree in for e.g. Maths/Physics/Mech Eng, and all of your courses are in that. Yes, we also covered other stuff like splines, finite difference method, too. I think Finite Element was third year where I last taught.

dataflow 6y ago
> You do a degree in for e.g. Maths/Physics/Mech Eng, and all of your courses are in that. "Major" refers to the same things you mentioned (physics, math, EE, etc.), it's not any different in the US. > Yes, we also covered other stuff like splines, finite difference method, too. I think Finite Element was third year where I last taught. Sorry to repeat the question, but again -- in what major (or "for what degree" in your terminology) did you study this? (CS? MechE? Physics? EE?)
- physicsguy 6y ago
  My background is physics, but most recently was a TA for classes for people in Aero/Mech/Astronautical Engineering (courses were shared between all three programmes) doing this stuff. In that department, beyond the courses covering this stuff which were compulsory, there were additional optional courses for 3rd and 4th year students to do C programming and more advanced numerical methods and stuff like programming paradigms for HPC.
  - dataflow 6y ago
    Yeah, so I think this clears up why. I don't think that "serious undergraduates or graduate students" statement was aimed at physics folks, but at more like CS (and possibly EE) folks. Who would also normally learn (say) programming paradigms, algorithms, data structures, low-level programming like C, etc. in their first 1-2 years, which are topics I'm guessing you wouldn't be covering as physicists. For students in CS (or to some extent EE or more nearby fields) to go in this direction in their first 1-2 years, they'd need to have a very unusual amount of interest in numerical techniques to defer other basic topics to later years (or just overload on technical courses and defer humanities to later).
    - dron57 6y ago
      I did EE in Canada and numerical methods were definitely taught in 2nd year of undergrad. Why wouldn't it be?
      - dataflow 6y ago
        I said possibly EE, not necessarily. Depends what you mean by "taught" and on what the program itself focuses on. In EE/CS programs you'd be taking half CS courses at least in the beginning, for example. And those EE courses' focuses are often on DSP and digital control rather than (say) simulating analog circuits. If by "taught" you mean "can be taken at that level", then sure, these are such undergrad courses in the US too, and they don't have particularly long prereq chains either, so a 2nd year student could take them if they actually wanted to. But it's not customary, and if by "taught" you mean required as part of the curriculum, it may not be depending on the school. The reasons are varied; again, lack of interest from CS-leaning folks on both sides is one such reason, as is the fact that the world has gone digital and they tend to focus more on linear algebra/DSP/etc. rather than ODEs and PDEs. In general few undergraduate students who aren't forced to take numerical methods in undergrad will do so. And I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing or trying to justify it, just explaining how it is and what some of their rationales are.
        BeetleB 6y ago
        > In EE/CS programs you'd be taking half CS courses at least in the beginning, for example. Not sure if you'll see my reply, but in the US this is generally not true for EE. If you're CompE, perhaps. In my EE undergrad, you were required to take only one CS course. It was otherwise heavier on math and circuits/electronics. By the end of the 2nd year, you'd have had two circuits courses, and have taken ODEs, and 3 semesters of calculus. Even the junior year is focused on electronics, E&M and motors - although you can start taking other electives (digital signal processing, etc). But numerical methods was not required for us. It was a senior level elective.
        dataflow 6y ago
- coldtea 6y ago
  >"Major" refers to the same things you mentioned (physics, math, EE, etc.), it's not any different in the US. It is, if the UK doesn't have minors but only majors (e.g. you determine from the start what you'll be studing).
  - dataflow 6y ago
    Minors and majors are mutually exclusive. You don't minor in something if you major in it. Majors should be the same as in the UK. And yes you can determine from the start what you'll be studying in the US in many schools; just depends on the college policy.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      >And yes you can determine from the start what you'll be studying in the US in many schools Sure. But the question is "can you do the inverse in the UK?". That would be the difference then -- not having the ability to "play around" before settling.
      - dataflow 6y ago
        The difference between what? The question was whether majors in the US mean the same thing as those things listed for the UK. I'm saying yes they do. The claim was never that other aspects of programs are identical in both countries.
        coldtea 6y ago
        Well, there is no equivalent of majors in the UK, so "majors in the US" can't "mean the same thing as those things listed for the UK". There are no majors in the UK, and no equivalents of the major/minor dichotomy. There is just a straight degree in X, studying topics about X. You don't get to decide your major later on, and you don't get to throw in a minor to your degree as well. You study a specific thing from the first year.
        6y ago

dataflow 6y ago

> You do a degree in for e.g. Maths/Physics/Mech Eng, and all of your courses are in that. "Major" refers to the same things you mentioned (physics, math, EE, etc.), it's not any different in the US. > Yes, we also covered other stuff like splines, finite difference method, too. I think Finite Element was third year where I last taught. Sorry to repeat the question, but again -- in what major (or "for what degree" in your terminology) did you study this? (CS? MechE? Physics? EE?)

physicsguy 6y ago
My background is physics, but most recently was a TA for classes for people in Aero/Mech/Astronautical Engineering (courses were shared between all three programmes) doing this stuff. In that department, beyond the courses covering this stuff which were compulsory, there were additional optional courses for 3rd and 4th year students to do C programming and more advanced numerical methods and stuff like programming paradigms for HPC.
- dataflow 6y ago
  Yeah, so I think this clears up why. I don't think that "serious undergraduates or graduate students" statement was aimed at physics folks, but at more like CS (and possibly EE) folks. Who would also normally learn (say) programming paradigms, algorithms, data structures, low-level programming like C, etc. in their first 1-2 years, which are topics I'm guessing you wouldn't be covering as physicists. For students in CS (or to some extent EE or more nearby fields) to go in this direction in their first 1-2 years, they'd need to have a very unusual amount of interest in numerical techniques to defer other basic topics to later years (or just overload on technical courses and defer humanities to later).
  - dron57 6y ago
    I did EE in Canada and numerical methods were definitely taught in 2nd year of undergrad. Why wouldn't it be?
    - dataflow 6y ago
      I said possibly EE, not necessarily. Depends what you mean by "taught" and on what the program itself focuses on. In EE/CS programs you'd be taking half CS courses at least in the beginning, for example. And those EE courses' focuses are often on DSP and digital control rather than (say) simulating analog circuits. If by "taught" you mean "can be taken at that level", then sure, these are such undergrad courses in the US too, and they don't have particularly long prereq chains either, so a 2nd year student could take them if they actually wanted to. But it's not customary, and if by "taught" you mean required as part of the curriculum, it may not be depending on the school. The reasons are varied; again, lack of interest from CS-leaning folks on both sides is one such reason, as is the fact that the world has gone digital and they tend to focus more on linear algebra/DSP/etc. rather than ODEs and PDEs. In general few undergraduate students who aren't forced to take numerical methods in undergrad will do so. And I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing or trying to justify it, just explaining how it is and what some of their rationales are.
      - BeetleB 6y ago
        > In EE/CS programs you'd be taking half CS courses at least in the beginning, for example. Not sure if you'll see my reply, but in the US this is generally not true for EE. If you're CompE, perhaps. In my EE undergrad, you were required to take only one CS course. It was otherwise heavier on math and circuits/electronics. By the end of the 2nd year, you'd have had two circuits courses, and have taken ODEs, and 3 semesters of calculus. Even the junior year is focused on electronics, E&M and motors - although you can start taking other electives (digital signal processing, etc). But numerical methods was not required for us. It was a senior level elective.
        dataflow 6y ago
coldtea 6y ago
>"Major" refers to the same things you mentioned (physics, math, EE, etc.), it's not any different in the US. It is, if the UK doesn't have minors but only majors (e.g. you determine from the start what you'll be studing).
- dataflow 6y ago
  Minors and majors are mutually exclusive. You don't minor in something if you major in it. Majors should be the same as in the UK. And yes you can determine from the start what you'll be studying in the US in many schools; just depends on the college policy.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >And yes you can determine from the start what you'll be studying in the US in many schools Sure. But the question is "can you do the inverse in the UK?". That would be the difference then -- not having the ability to "play around" before settling.
    - dataflow 6y ago
      The difference between what? The question was whether majors in the US mean the same thing as those things listed for the UK. I'm saying yes they do. The claim was never that other aspects of programs are identical in both countries.
      - coldtea 6y ago
        Well, there is no equivalent of majors in the UK, so "majors in the US" can't "mean the same thing as those things listed for the UK". There are no majors in the UK, and no equivalents of the major/minor dichotomy. There is just a straight degree in X, studying topics about X. You don't get to decide your major later on, and you don't get to throw in a minor to your degree as well. You study a specific thing from the first year.
        6y ago