5 ms·

I'm not convinced, and I'm a swiss citizen. Germany frankly seems to do better. Germans go out on the streets, while swiss people are way more content with wha

by lawl 6y ago

I'm not convinced, and I'm a swiss citizen. Germany frankly seems to do better. Germans go out on the streets, while swiss people are way more content with whatever shady surveillance shit the government does. E.g. We have the mandatory data retention bullshit, I'm not sure if this is covered by this law, but if it is they'd have to save all logs for 6 months. Iirc the germans successfully fought this. Btw. these records can be stored outside of switzerland. Smells like a PR stunt without any substance.

tumblewit 6y ago
Some of the dns like clean browsing use german servers and netherlands from my testing.
DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
The recently discussed Quantum Terra AG has its HQ in CH even only 3 out of the claimed 80 people are based in CH. It seems companies think that the location-reputation will rub off on the product. Also ProtonMail is another company which until today benefits from having a letter-box presence so they can profit from the "data-center inside the Swiss mountain meme". Security made in <foo> is always a PR stunt. Deutsche Telecom, 1&1 and others tried it by pouring huge sums into an "Email made in Germany" campaign that only benefited a particular consulting company. It utterly failed because their geo-fencing idea was technically unenforcable. CH is more dangerous because the same idiotic ideas brought to Switzerland will often take off. Most EU security companies I know would not easily consider CH as a great location unless it has something to do with business strategy: 1) tax, 2) location of a holding company see #1, or 3) sell into the CH market. On the other hand many non EU based security start-up CEO's often talk about it as it had some security benefit. But as you say this is a huge lie since data protection has nothing to do with banking secrecy and even when the latter is in question a New Mexico LLC is a much more secretive vehicle than a Swiss GmbH/Srl [0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Mail_made_in_Germany https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Mail_made_in_Germany [1] https://www.telekom.com/en/media/media-information/archive/deutsche-telekom-web-de-and-gmx-launch-e-mail-made-in-germany-initiative-359276 https://www.telekom.com/en/media/media-information/archive/d...
- lawl 6y ago
  > Security made in <foo> is always a PR stunt. I mean to a degree. There's other talk about some countries wanting to require backdoors in end to end encryption products. If you're in a country that doesn't have that and offer an E2E product, i mean yeah, that can be a selling point. And you should probably point out that your regulated in a country that doesn't require backdoors. But in this case, the laws in Switzerland are frankly just... shit between the mandatory data retention (BÜPF) and DNS censorship under the guise of preventing gambling (Glücksspielgesetz). Yeah, it's a negative for me if my DNS is regulated here.
  - bwoodcock 6y ago
    It seems like perhaps you haven't actually looked at what the announcement was about? The entire point of the relocation was that the laws you're discussing were found not to apply. https://www.quad9.net/privacy/compliance-and-applicable-law/ https://www.quad9.net/privacy/compliance-and-applicable-law/
    - lawl 6y ago
      Thanks, I don't see a link to that from the submitted Press release. I don't think it's fair to ask me if I haven't actually looked when I did in fact read the press release. No, I did not spend extra time to click around, because I simply didn't care that much. In any case I'm glad this doesn't fall under these shit laws (yet).
- sschueller 6y ago
  ProtonMail doesn't even know what the Swiss Flag looks like: https://twitter.com/sschueller/status/1309429286655479808 https://twitter.com/sschueller/status/1309429286655479808 took them for ever to "fix" it (The flag might show the correct cross now but it should be square!).
  - Shacklz 6y ago
    As a Swiss, I never got the insistence on the square thingie... A lot of Swiss flags that people fly on their poles aren't a square either, and nobody cares. Actually, I'd prefer it if it weren't square, it always gives me this odd-one-out impression in lists of flags
tssva 6y ago
I agree that this announcement is mostly a PR stunt. I find it more likely that the truth is more along the lines that the Quad9 foundation found themselves with a lack of funding from the original founders and SWITCH agreed to provide additional funding but required them to relocate to Switzerland to do so.
- bwoodcock 6y ago
  Nope, SWITCH was engaged after the country decision was made. The country selection process took the better part of five years. SWITCH was engaged in July of 2019. SWITCH has contributed labor, but has put up no money. Quad9 is, as always, a starving non-profit, because when money comes in, it gets spent to provide service, but it's more comfortable now than at any point in the past. So essentially every single assertion in your post is false, no? Did I miss something?
forks34 6y ago
And what did protesting do? BND is still helping the NSA, Americans still kill People via Rammstein. Unlawfully that is.
- tgragnato 6y ago
  Not that anyone in Europe can criticise... Looking at my country, Italians in Sigonella let go much worse, and the US is very proud of it.
j3th9n 6y ago
Even a "9-eyes" country like the Netherlands doesn't have a data retention law in place anymore since 2015. I wonder which one is better then.
bwoodcock 6y ago
https://www.quad9.net/privacy/compliance-and-applicable-law/ https://www.quad9.net/privacy/compliance-and-applicable-law/

by lawl 6y ago

tumblewit 6y ago

Some of the dns like clean browsing use german servers and netherlands from my testing.

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago

The recently discussed Quantum Terra AG has its HQ in CH even only 3 out of the claimed 80 people are based in CH. It seems companies think that the location-reputation will rub off on the product. Also ProtonMail is another company which until today benefits from having a letter-box presence so they can profit from the "data-center inside the Swiss mountain meme". Security made in <foo> is always a PR stunt. Deutsche Telecom, 1&1 and others tried it by pouring huge sums into an "Email made in Germany" campaign that only benefited a particular consulting company. It utterly failed because their geo-fencing idea was technically unenforcable. CH is more dangerous because the same idiotic ideas brought to Switzerland will often take off. Most EU security companies I know would not easily consider CH as a great location unless it has something to do with business strategy: 1) tax, 2) location of a holding company see #1, or 3) sell into the CH market. On the other hand many non EU based security start-up CEO's often talk about it as it had some security benefit. But as you say this is a huge lie since data protection has nothing to do with banking secrecy and even when the latter is in question a New Mexico LLC is a much more secretive vehicle than a Swiss GmbH/Srl [0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Mail_made_in_Germany https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Mail_made_in_Germany [1] https://www.telekom.com/en/media/media-information/archive/deutsche-telekom-web-de-and-gmx-launch-e-mail-made-in-germany-initiative-359276 https://www.telekom.com/en/media/media-information/archive/d...

lawl 6y ago
> Security made in <foo> is always a PR stunt. I mean to a degree. There's other talk about some countries wanting to require backdoors in end to end encryption products. If you're in a country that doesn't have that and offer an E2E product, i mean yeah, that can be a selling point. And you should probably point out that your regulated in a country that doesn't require backdoors. But in this case, the laws in Switzerland are frankly just... shit between the mandatory data retention (BÜPF) and DNS censorship under the guise of preventing gambling (Glücksspielgesetz). Yeah, it's a negative for me if my DNS is regulated here.
- bwoodcock 6y ago
  It seems like perhaps you haven't actually looked at what the announcement was about? The entire point of the relocation was that the laws you're discussing were found not to apply. https://www.quad9.net/privacy/compliance-and-applicable-law/ https://www.quad9.net/privacy/compliance-and-applicable-law/
  - lawl 6y ago
    Thanks, I don't see a link to that from the submitted Press release. I don't think it's fair to ask me if I haven't actually looked when I did in fact read the press release. No, I did not spend extra time to click around, because I simply didn't care that much. In any case I'm glad this doesn't fall under these shit laws (yet).
sschueller 6y ago
ProtonMail doesn't even know what the Swiss Flag looks like: https://twitter.com/sschueller/status/1309429286655479808 https://twitter.com/sschueller/status/1309429286655479808 took them for ever to "fix" it (The flag might show the correct cross now but it should be square!).
- Shacklz 6y ago
  As a Swiss, I never got the insistence on the square thingie... A lot of Swiss flags that people fly on their poles aren't a square either, and nobody cares. Actually, I'd prefer it if it weren't square, it always gives me this odd-one-out impression in lists of flags

tssva 6y ago

I agree that this announcement is mostly a PR stunt. I find it more likely that the truth is more along the lines that the Quad9 foundation found themselves with a lack of funding from the original founders and SWITCH agreed to provide additional funding but required them to relocate to Switzerland to do so.

bwoodcock 6y ago
Nope, SWITCH was engaged after the country decision was made. The country selection process took the better part of five years. SWITCH was engaged in July of 2019. SWITCH has contributed labor, but has put up no money. Quad9 is, as always, a starving non-profit, because when money comes in, it gets spent to provide service, but it's more comfortable now than at any point in the past. So essentially every single assertion in your post is false, no? Did I miss something?

forks34 6y ago

And what did protesting do? BND is still helping the NSA, Americans still kill People via Rammstein. Unlawfully that is.

tgragnato 6y ago
Not that anyone in Europe can criticise... Looking at my country, Italians in Sigonella let go much worse, and the US is very proud of it.

j3th9n 6y ago

Even a "9-eyes" country like the Netherlands doesn't have a data retention law in place anymore since 2015. I wonder which one is better then.

bwoodcock 6y ago

https://www.quad9.net/privacy/compliance-and-applicable-law/ https://www.quad9.net/privacy/compliance-and-applicable-law/