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"As I said above, I don’t have the luxury of ethics at this stage." Ethics is not a luxury. Properly defined and applied, what is ethical is what is needed to

"As I said above, I don’t have the luxury of ethics at this stage." Ethics is not a luxury. Properly defined and applied, what is ethical is what is needed to survive as a human (which means going by reason), long term. This is totally at odds with what spammers do, which is to defraud people, violate contracts, etc. Running or using a bot network is trespass and theft. In this context, everyone, including the spammer, knows where the botnet came from. Yes, this guy might get some money, for a while, just like any other common criminal can (while constantly worrying about getting caught, long after the crime was committed). But compare that pathetic psychological state and the small, ephemeral trickle of income to what someone doing honest work can earn (a successful startup, for example), and you will see that the immoral is the impractical.

eru 15y ago
In our cushy rich modern societies, there's a lot of room between survival and ethical behaviour.
- maxharris 15y ago
  If "survival" only means continued metabolism and respiration, yes. But I submit that "survival" means more than just that. We're human beings, so for us, survival requires independent thought, art, science, honesty, self-esteem, productive work, and a whole lot more.
  - eru 15y ago
    I'd call that "independent thought, art, science, honesty, self-esteem, productive work", and keep the definition of survival close to something like "You're heart's still beating.".
    - maxharris 15y ago
      But the problem with your definition is that if we go by it, human survival in the long-term is not included. Your mind's independent thought is ultimately the thing that ensures that your heart keeps beating. Without it, there will come a point where you can't keep making the things you need to stay alive physically.
  - Travis 15y ago
    I understand where you're coming from, but not everyone has the same ethical sense that you do. I think you would be hard pressed to say that people without those things (art, science, productive work, honesty, etc.) are not surviving. Maybe they aren't thriving... but that's different. I think Maslow's heirarchy of needs is pretty relevant here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslows_hierarchy_of_needs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslows_hierarchy_of_needs

eru 15y ago

In our cushy rich modern societies, there's a lot of room between survival and ethical behaviour.

maxharris 15y ago
If "survival" only means continued metabolism and respiration, yes. But I submit that "survival" means more than just that. We're human beings, so for us, survival requires independent thought, art, science, honesty, self-esteem, productive work, and a whole lot more.
- eru 15y ago
  I'd call that "independent thought, art, science, honesty, self-esteem, productive work", and keep the definition of survival close to something like "You're heart's still beating.".
  - maxharris 15y ago
    But the problem with your definition is that if we go by it, human survival in the long-term is not included. Your mind's independent thought is ultimately the thing that ensures that your heart keeps beating. Without it, there will come a point where you can't keep making the things you need to stay alive physically.
- Travis 15y ago
  I understand where you're coming from, but not everyone has the same ethical sense that you do. I think you would be hard pressed to say that people without those things (art, science, productive work, honesty, etc.) are not surviving. Maybe they aren't thriving... but that's different. I think Maslow's heirarchy of needs is pretty relevant here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslows_hierarchy_of_needs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslows_hierarchy_of_needs