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Also where does text end and diagrams/images start? E.g where does musical notation stand? For an untrained eye it is just a bunch of lines, dots and squiggles

by smoe 6y ago

Also where does text end and diagrams/images start? E.g where does musical notation stand? For an untrained eye it is just a bunch of lines, dots and squiggles but others will read it like text and much more efficiently so than if it were written words. Similarly the example about the Wikipedia text of human rights being supposedly impossible to convey via image. But what does the text convey to you if you don’t speak English?

shash 6y ago
Also, what does it convey if translated into (say) Egyptian hieroglyphs, if you're an ancient Egyptian who can read hieroglyphs...
- mannykannot 6y ago
  Hieroglyph writers have to resort to tricks like punning to express ideas that are not simple pictures. There's a reason why written language became more abstract.
Lichtso 6y ago
> Also where does text end and diagrams/images start? Text is the written form of language. And language is defined as a sequence of symbols. Thus, text is a subset of diagrams. Arbitrary diagrams can be of any topology (e.g. DAGs or even have cycles), however text always is of sequential topology (or a hierarchy as there is an isomorphic mapping to sequences). Basically, if there is a canonical way of reading it out loud, then it has an explicit sequence and is thus text. By that rule it follows that: Musical notation is text as it is strictly sequential (in time) and maybe hierarchical if there are multiple tracks. Most mathematical notations are text, as they are also sequential, even matrices are only a hierarchy of sequences which in turn can be serialized. Chemical / molecular diagrams are not text, they can contain cycles. Same goes for electronic and logic circuit schematics or rail way diagrams found in public transportation. > Similarly the example about the Wikipedia text of human rights being supposedly impossible to convey via image Schematics and diagrams are only use full if / because they are subject to a certain defined visual vocabulary. So if you had a visual vocabulary in that domain then you could express them as a diagram.

by smoe 6y ago

shash 6y ago

Also, what does it convey if translated into (say) Egyptian hieroglyphs, if you're an ancient Egyptian who can read hieroglyphs...

mannykannot 6y ago
Hieroglyph writers have to resort to tricks like punning to express ideas that are not simple pictures. There's a reason why written language became more abstract.

Lichtso 6y ago

> Also where does text end and diagrams/images start? Text is the written form of language. And language is defined as a sequence of symbols. Thus, text is a subset of diagrams. Arbitrary diagrams can be of any topology (e.g. DAGs or even have cycles), however text always is of sequential topology (or a hierarchy as there is an isomorphic mapping to sequences). Basically, if there is a canonical way of reading it out loud, then it has an explicit sequence and is thus text. By that rule it follows that: Musical notation is text as it is strictly sequential (in time) and maybe hierarchical if there are multiple tracks. Most mathematical notations are text, as they are also sequential, even matrices are only a hierarchy of sequences which in turn can be serialized. Chemical / molecular diagrams are not text, they can contain cycles. Same goes for electronic and logic circuit schematics or rail way diagrams found in public transportation. > Similarly the example about the Wikipedia text of human rights being supposedly impossible to convey via image Schematics and diagrams are only use full if / because they are subject to a certain defined visual vocabulary. So if you had a visual vocabulary in that domain then you could express them as a diagram.