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OK, we ban it, now what? I think the cat is out of the bag there, and I believe that institutions that are driven to convict rather than to seek justice or atta

OK, we ban it, now what? I think the cat is out of the bag there, and I believe that institutions that are driven to convict rather than to seek justice or attack terrorism rather than to preserve peace will still use all the tools they can with little or no regard for law, like they always have.

bryanrasmussen 6y ago
generally organizations that use tools that are illegal do so because they are criminal organizations or structurally placed in their bureaucracy to be above the law. If biometric surveillance is illegal on the EU level I believe it is clear that national police organizations will not be structurally above the law, and as such they will not be using those tools. There is of course the fact that some police organizations will do so and try to hide it, but they will at that point be able to be punished when caught because they will not be above the law.
- nathias 6y ago
  yea like the NSA was punished for their stuff ...
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    as I said "structurally placed in their bureaucracy to be above the law", the NSA and the CIA are very much placed to be above the law in the US. Obviously pious people proclaim every now and then that nobody is above the law, but pragmatically these agencies often are. The Utah Highway Patrol is not placed to be above Federal law. If the EU passes a regulation forbidding the use of biometric surveillance the Danish National Police will be very much under that regulation, in the same way that if the US government passed a law regulating highway stops of motor vehicles the Utah Highway patrol would be under that law. There may be some EU agency that because of various things would be able to operate above the law on this issue, but not the national agencies.
    - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
      as an example - most US police organizations are structurally placed to be above a lot of the law in their state, which is why we always hear about police officers killing people and getting a suspension with pay etc. the most common structural placement of your organization above the law is to have the organization investigate its own wrongdoing.
      - eptcyka 6y ago
        This is how the police operates in the UK too.
- isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago
  National organizations, including police, are frequently exempt from any sort of privacy laws (e.g. GDPR)

bryanrasmussen 6y ago

generally organizations that use tools that are illegal do so because they are criminal organizations or structurally placed in their bureaucracy to be above the law. If biometric surveillance is illegal on the EU level I believe it is clear that national police organizations will not be structurally above the law, and as such they will not be using those tools. There is of course the fact that some police organizations will do so and try to hide it, but they will at that point be able to be punished when caught because they will not be above the law.

nathias 6y ago
yea like the NSA was punished for their stuff ...
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  as I said "structurally placed in their bureaucracy to be above the law", the NSA and the CIA are very much placed to be above the law in the US. Obviously pious people proclaim every now and then that nobody is above the law, but pragmatically these agencies often are. The Utah Highway Patrol is not placed to be above Federal law. If the EU passes a regulation forbidding the use of biometric surveillance the Danish National Police will be very much under that regulation, in the same way that if the US government passed a law regulating highway stops of motor vehicles the Utah Highway patrol would be under that law. There may be some EU agency that because of various things would be able to operate above the law on this issue, but not the national agencies.
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    as an example - most US police organizations are structurally placed to be above a lot of the law in their state, which is why we always hear about police officers killing people and getting a suspension with pay etc. the most common structural placement of your organization above the law is to have the organization investigate its own wrongdoing.
    - eptcyka 6y ago
      This is how the police operates in the UK too.
isbvhodnvemrwvn 6y ago
National organizations, including police, are frequently exempt from any sort of privacy laws (e.g. GDPR)