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After they asked for the PESEL (Polish national identity number) I just stopped filling the form. It's sensitive personal data, you don't want to give it unless

by OCISLY 6y ago

After they asked for the PESEL (Polish national identity number) I just stopped filling the form. It's sensitive personal data, you don't want to give it unless it's necessar and you have complete trust for requesting party.

tester34 6y ago
Yea, I've heard that crypto currencies exchanges require you to send your photo while holding your ID weird
- emteycz 6y ago
  That's because of lawful KYC requirements.
- xxs 6y ago
  Of course, it's like signing for bank account. It's not because of the crypto itself, but the standard money/forex part.
  - tester34 6y ago
    >Of course, it's like signing for bank account. with the difference that the bank is relatively trusted entity backed by shitton of formality meanwhile crypto exchanges seems to be more shady orgs with 30 yo CEOs
    - input_sh 6y ago
      They still have to do that due to anti-money-laundering rules: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer This originates from what was at the time the least controversial part of the Patriot Act. If you want to be able to exchange cryptocurrencies to a Visa/Mastercard, the service needs your ID, regardless of where you're from.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  I bought some crypto on one of the local_x sites and the guy made me write _by hand_ a letter about my ID being real. A "do you want the money or not" conversation ensued.
daenney 6y ago
Yeah that’s really not OK. Though in some countries that number isn’t sensitive by itself, asking for it to sign a petition is incredibly creepy. If you select Netherlands they’re at least informed enough to not ask for the Dutch equivalent, the BSN. It would be against the law for them to ask, process or store it.
- threatofrain 6y ago
  How would you have an effective petition in the EU without verifying that petitioners are EU citizens? Then this petition would be reduced to a singular PR push.
  - daenney 6y ago
    You don’t need to ask for the social security number equivalent to verify citizenship. By itself it doesn’t help in that context since residents get one too. If you try the form for different countries, in a lot of cases they don’t ask for that particular identifier, because they legally can’t, and ask for address information instead. That’s still a little creepy, but a whole lot less.
    - RobertoG 6y ago
      Personally, I have less problem with giving my ID than my address. It's the address what feels creepy to me. >>"By itself it doesn’t help in that context since residents get one too." At least in my country that's not true. The resident but not citizen number is different.
    - varjag 6y ago
      Residents in much of the EU get plenty of rights, including voting in local elections. So why not? They live there, and their biometrics are being collected too.
      - daenney 6y ago
        I didn’t say at any point that residents shouldn’t get to vote on this. But they’re looking to verify citizenship, not residency.
docdeek 6y ago
That’s interesting - I looked at what was required for my country of nationality and my country of residence, and neither asked for the national ID number. They still wanted the full street address, but no ID number. Any idea why they would treat Poland differently? Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria all also seems to ask for a document number and not an address.
- buzer 6y ago
  From looking into it a bit, it looks like each country sets the requirements by themselves. In case of Finland, requirements are documented at least at https://dvv.fi/en/european-citizens-initiative https://dvv.fi/en/european-citizens-initiative ("The organisers must collect the family name, full first names, date of birth, country of permanent residence and nationality for Finnish citizens signing statements of support."). They seem to be also collecting full address when it's not required for Finnish citizens.
- OCISLY 6y ago
  I'm not sure, but I guess in some countries there is law against asking for certain personal information.
- input_sh 6y ago
  I guess it depends on how the petitions work in countries? Where I'm from you never submit your national ID number (13 digit number given to each citizen once, never changes), but you do submit the "number" of your national ID (9 numbers and letters, changes when you move places or every 10 years, whichever comes first) when signing any petition.
- maddocche 6y ago
  It depends on your country, some require personal information and some doesn't... For the latter you still have to provide your street address. Check ANNEX III part A of EU regulation here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1573312568557&uri=CELEX:32019R0788#ntr5-L_2019130EN.01007401-E0005 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=15733125...
RobertoG 6y ago
I think this is an official petition, so, there are legal requirements to identify yourself as a citizen of an EU country. Depending of your country they ask for different data. For instance, for Finland they ask the physical address but for Belgium only the national ID number. I suppose that there is not such number in Finland or it's illegal to ask for it. There is a link in the form to the relevant regulation. So, the website looks legit. Of course, that doesn't mean that it's legit but my gut feeling it's that they are.
jack_arleth 6y ago
I understand your concerns and where you are coming from, but the privacy policy is refreshingly transparent, readable and clear: https://reclaimyourface.eu/privacy-policy/ https://reclaimyourface.eu/privacy-policy/ Some key facts: - "ECI signatories: your full first and last names, country of residence and date of signature. Depending on the signatory’s nationality, we will also collect a combination of the following data: residence (street, number, postal code, city, country), date of birth, national identity document type and national identity document number." This seems to indicate that the data requested is dependant on the country you live in. So blaming the organization is a bit unfair. - "Your data will be stored by the group of organisers for a maximum retention period of one month after the submission of the initiative to the European Commission or 21 months after the beginning of the collection period, whichever is the earlier. It might be retained beyond these time limits in the case of administrative or legal proceedings, for a maximum of one month after the date of conclusion of these proceedings." They will remove your data whatever happens. I've signed the petition and handed over my the equivalent of PESEL. I did that because I understand that if we want to enact change we have to be more than a signature on an online form, we have to be a living breathing person and not just another email-address in a database. They can sweep gme_diamondhands_6969@whatever.com under the rug rather easily but along with data that proves that I'm a citizen that becomes much harder to do.
visarga 6y ago
Nice. We don't support the privacy bill petition because we're afraid to disclose our data.

by OCISLY 6y ago

tester34 6y ago

Yea, I've heard that crypto currencies exchanges require you to send your photo while holding your ID weird

emteycz 6y ago
That's because of lawful KYC requirements.
xxs 6y ago
Of course, it's like signing for bank account. It's not because of the crypto itself, but the standard money/forex part.
- tester34 6y ago
  >Of course, it's like signing for bank account. with the difference that the bank is relatively trusted entity backed by shitton of formality meanwhile crypto exchanges seems to be more shady orgs with 30 yo CEOs
  - input_sh 6y ago
    They still have to do that due to anti-money-laundering rules: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer This originates from what was at the time the least controversial part of the Patriot Act. If you want to be able to exchange cryptocurrencies to a Visa/Mastercard, the service needs your ID, regardless of where you're from.
mhh__ 6y ago
I bought some crypto on one of the local_x sites and the guy made me write _by hand_ a letter about my ID being real. A "do you want the money or not" conversation ensued.

daenney 6y ago

Yeah that’s really not OK. Though in some countries that number isn’t sensitive by itself, asking for it to sign a petition is incredibly creepy. If you select Netherlands they’re at least informed enough to not ask for the Dutch equivalent, the BSN. It would be against the law for them to ask, process or store it.

threatofrain 6y ago
How would you have an effective petition in the EU without verifying that petitioners are EU citizens? Then this petition would be reduced to a singular PR push.
- daenney 6y ago
  You don’t need to ask for the social security number equivalent to verify citizenship. By itself it doesn’t help in that context since residents get one too. If you try the form for different countries, in a lot of cases they don’t ask for that particular identifier, because they legally can’t, and ask for address information instead. That’s still a little creepy, but a whole lot less.
  - RobertoG 6y ago
    Personally, I have less problem with giving my ID than my address. It's the address what feels creepy to me. >>"By itself it doesn’t help in that context since residents get one too." At least in my country that's not true. The resident but not citizen number is different.
  - varjag 6y ago
    Residents in much of the EU get plenty of rights, including voting in local elections. So why not? They live there, and their biometrics are being collected too.
    - daenney 6y ago
      I didn’t say at any point that residents shouldn’t get to vote on this. But they’re looking to verify citizenship, not residency.

docdeek 6y ago

That’s interesting - I looked at what was required for my country of nationality and my country of residence, and neither asked for the national ID number. They still wanted the full street address, but no ID number. Any idea why they would treat Poland differently? Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria all also seems to ask for a document number and not an address.

buzer 6y ago
From looking into it a bit, it looks like each country sets the requirements by themselves. In case of Finland, requirements are documented at least at https://dvv.fi/en/european-citizens-initiative https://dvv.fi/en/european-citizens-initiative ("The organisers must collect the family name, full first names, date of birth, country of permanent residence and nationality for Finnish citizens signing statements of support."). They seem to be also collecting full address when it's not required for Finnish citizens.
OCISLY 6y ago
I'm not sure, but I guess in some countries there is law against asking for certain personal information.
input_sh 6y ago
I guess it depends on how the petitions work in countries? Where I'm from you never submit your national ID number (13 digit number given to each citizen once, never changes), but you do submit the "number" of your national ID (9 numbers and letters, changes when you move places or every 10 years, whichever comes first) when signing any petition.
maddocche 6y ago
It depends on your country, some require personal information and some doesn't... For the latter you still have to provide your street address. Check ANNEX III part A of EU regulation here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1573312568557&uri=CELEX:32019R0788#ntr5-L_2019130EN.01007401-E0005 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=15733125...

RobertoG 6y ago

I think this is an official petition, so, there are legal requirements to identify yourself as a citizen of an EU country. Depending of your country they ask for different data. For instance, for Finland they ask the physical address but for Belgium only the national ID number. I suppose that there is not such number in Finland or it's illegal to ask for it. There is a link in the form to the relevant regulation. So, the website looks legit. Of course, that doesn't mean that it's legit but my gut feeling it's that they are.

jack_arleth 6y ago

I understand your concerns and where you are coming from, but the privacy policy is refreshingly transparent, readable and clear: https://reclaimyourface.eu/privacy-policy/ https://reclaimyourface.eu/privacy-policy/ Some key facts: - "ECI signatories: your full first and last names, country of residence and date of signature. Depending on the signatory’s nationality, we will also collect a combination of the following data: residence (street, number, postal code, city, country), date of birth, national identity document type and national identity document number." This seems to indicate that the data requested is dependant on the country you live in. So blaming the organization is a bit unfair. - "Your data will be stored by the group of organisers for a maximum retention period of one month after the submission of the initiative to the European Commission or 21 months after the beginning of the collection period, whichever is the earlier. It might be retained beyond these time limits in the case of administrative or legal proceedings, for a maximum of one month after the date of conclusion of these proceedings." They will remove your data whatever happens. I've signed the petition and handed over my the equivalent of PESEL. I did that because I understand that if we want to enact change we have to be more than a signature on an online form, we have to be a living breathing person and not just another email-address in a database. They can sweep gme_diamondhands_6969@whatever.com under the rug rather easily but along with data that proves that I'm a citizen that becomes much harder to do.

visarga 6y ago

Nice. We don't support the privacy bill petition because we're afraid to disclose our data.