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And also because of this, if you're blocking tracking pixels in a privacy conscious way you often get removed from the mailing list without any notice, which is

And also because of this, if you're blocking tracking pixels in a privacy conscious way you often get removed from the mailing list without any notice, which is very frustrating. Or you get one of those mail saying "We are removing you from the list because you don't read our newsletter", often without offering any other confirmation signal. Basically they says "Let us track you or you are out of this list". And this is also the result of marketing people who look at ways to increase the "good numbers", more likely to show to their bosses. They don't actually care if you read or enjoy their content, you are either one of the users who increase their opening and click rates, or you're a useless burden to them.

Nextgrid 6y ago
> you often get removed from the mailing list without any notice Seems like nothing of value would be lost? > They don't actually care if you read or enjoy their content, you are either one of the users who increase their opening and click rates, or you're a useless burden to them. Confirms that indeed nothing of value would be lost. It seems like a win-win situation, spam-letters you wouldn't want to read anyway eventually remove you off their spam list because they can't stalk you.
- TheNorthman 6y ago
  I, and I imagine many more people, block all external resources by default, which has gotten me removed from a mailing list I was interested in. Although I will give you that the vast majority of auto-removals have been beneficial for me.
- arkitaip 6y ago
  Obviously true and it's sad that newsletter spammers would down vote you. Who else would even find your comment controversial.
- that_guy_iain 6y ago
  > Seems like nothing of value would be lost? That would depend on the newsletter. Some newsletter provide lots of value for those wanting to keep up to date with minimum effort. It could also be a newsletter you need to monitor for work purposes. > They don't actually care if you read or enjoy their content, you are either one of the users who increase their opening and click rates, or you're a useless burden to them. No they care more that you don't reduce their deliverability rate and that is affected by email service providers deciding if you're not opening the email you're not interested, not reading and enjoying the content and therefore and don't want the content.
- rcxdude 6y ago
  >Seems like nothing of value would be lost? A lot of value could be lost. There are one or two newsletters I get by email which I read frequently and may contain extremely valuable information (i.e. could result in a significant sale). It could easily be a pretty significant loss to the company (and me) if they stopped sending them.
chrismorgan 6y ago
Counter-anecdote: I’ve heard of people saying this, but never experienced it, except for the Daily UI mailing list that I once signed up for and received one email, but no more—until over a year later I tried loading remote images on that first email, then it switched to the daily progression.
- mcv 6y ago
  Terrible. Just send a verification email that says explicitly that you need to either respond to it, click a button or load the images on that email to receive further mails. Leaving people in the dark about this sort of requirement should be considered an anti-pattern.
  - relix 6y ago
    People hate that as well, as can be clearly seen in the comments on this story. It's basically impossible to do right for everyone.
    - mcv 6y ago
      Honesty is always the best solution in my opinion. Send a verification email when someone subscribes. In the verification email, put a "yeah, I want this" link, and explicit "unsubscribe" link. If you also want to consider loading remote images to be valid verification, then say so explicitly in the verification email, and explain they may get unsubscribed if they don't either click the link or load the images. Explicitly unsubscribing will always override the other options. Unspoken assumptions are always going to be wrong for some people.
      - relix 6y ago
        For subscribing, you just described double opt-in and that already happens. When unsubscribing, users are very sensitive to any subsequent emails (just read the other comments in this thread). Sending an email to confirm their unsubscription might annoy a lot of the users, or will make them doubt that you're above board ("legit" newsletters boast about not sending any emails after unsubscribing, so this is a little red flag) - they will then flag that email as spam, and then we're back at square one. They also get annoyed when you ask them to confirm that they still want to read the emails. And Gmail will flag you if you keep sending the emails when they're not opening the emails. I think there really is no good solution here.
jrootabega 6y ago
Hell, my credit card company reverts to sending me paper statements if I haven't viewed their web bug in a long enough time. Doesn't matter that I use this advanced tool called a calendar to download the statement every month from their website. So my reward for protecting my electronic privacy is to have my privacy violated through the USPS.
- gruez 6y ago
  >So my reward for protecting my electronic privacy is to have my privacy violated through the USPS. You think the USPS is reading your credit card statements?
ocdtrekkie 6y ago
I have one mailing list I'm on where I get this all the dang time, and have to respond and tell them I'm reading, just not displaying tracking pixels.

Nextgrid 6y ago

> you often get removed from the mailing list without any notice Seems like nothing of value would be lost? > They don't actually care if you read or enjoy their content, you are either one of the users who increase their opening and click rates, or you're a useless burden to them. Confirms that indeed nothing of value would be lost. It seems like a win-win situation, spam-letters you wouldn't want to read anyway eventually remove you off their spam list because they can't stalk you.

TheNorthman 6y ago
I, and I imagine many more people, block all external resources by default, which has gotten me removed from a mailing list I was interested in. Although I will give you that the vast majority of auto-removals have been beneficial for me.
arkitaip 6y ago
Obviously true and it's sad that newsletter spammers would down vote you. Who else would even find your comment controversial.
that_guy_iain 6y ago
> Seems like nothing of value would be lost? That would depend on the newsletter. Some newsletter provide lots of value for those wanting to keep up to date with minimum effort. It could also be a newsletter you need to monitor for work purposes. > They don't actually care if you read or enjoy their content, you are either one of the users who increase their opening and click rates, or you're a useless burden to them. No they care more that you don't reduce their deliverability rate and that is affected by email service providers deciding if you're not opening the email you're not interested, not reading and enjoying the content and therefore and don't want the content.
rcxdude 6y ago
>Seems like nothing of value would be lost? A lot of value could be lost. There are one or two newsletters I get by email which I read frequently and may contain extremely valuable information (i.e. could result in a significant sale). It could easily be a pretty significant loss to the company (and me) if they stopped sending them.

chrismorgan 6y ago

Counter-anecdote: I’ve heard of people saying this, but never experienced it, except for the Daily UI mailing list that I once signed up for and received one email, but no more—until over a year later I tried loading remote images on that first email, then it switched to the daily progression.

mcv 6y ago
Terrible. Just send a verification email that says explicitly that you need to either respond to it, click a button or load the images on that email to receive further mails. Leaving people in the dark about this sort of requirement should be considered an anti-pattern.
- relix 6y ago
  People hate that as well, as can be clearly seen in the comments on this story. It's basically impossible to do right for everyone.
  - mcv 6y ago
    Honesty is always the best solution in my opinion. Send a verification email when someone subscribes. In the verification email, put a "yeah, I want this" link, and explicit "unsubscribe" link. If you also want to consider loading remote images to be valid verification, then say so explicitly in the verification email, and explain they may get unsubscribed if they don't either click the link or load the images. Explicitly unsubscribing will always override the other options. Unspoken assumptions are always going to be wrong for some people.
    - relix 6y ago
      For subscribing, you just described double opt-in and that already happens. When unsubscribing, users are very sensitive to any subsequent emails (just read the other comments in this thread). Sending an email to confirm their unsubscription might annoy a lot of the users, or will make them doubt that you're above board ("legit" newsletters boast about not sending any emails after unsubscribing, so this is a little red flag) - they will then flag that email as spam, and then we're back at square one. They also get annoyed when you ask them to confirm that they still want to read the emails. And Gmail will flag you if you keep sending the emails when they're not opening the emails. I think there really is no good solution here.

jrootabega 6y ago

Hell, my credit card company reverts to sending me paper statements if I haven't viewed their web bug in a long enough time. Doesn't matter that I use this advanced tool called a calendar to download the statement every month from their website. So my reward for protecting my electronic privacy is to have my privacy violated through the USPS.

gruez 6y ago
>So my reward for protecting my electronic privacy is to have my privacy violated through the USPS. You think the USPS is reading your credit card statements?

ocdtrekkie 6y ago

I have one mailing list I'm on where I get this all the dang time, and have to respond and tell them I'm reading, just not displaying tracking pixels.