6 ms·

Their activity detection does not inspire confidence. Google is an incredibly bad proxy for user activity. Edit: downvoted but no substantive responses? Guidel

Their activity detection does not inspire confidence. Google is an incredibly bad proxy for user activity. Edit: downvoted but no substantive responses? Guidelines are for thee but not for mee, I guess.

freddie_mercury 6y ago
a) The guidelines don't say anything about needing to give a substantive response instead of downvoting. b) The guidelines do say not to complain about voting. c) Both the creator of HN and its moderators have repeatedly said that downvoting for disagreement is perfectly fine. "Downvoting has always been used to express disagreement." Paul Graham, February 16, 2008. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314
- DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
  off topic, and it makes for boring conversation. but: > "Downvoting has always been used to express disagreement." Paul Graham, February 16, 2008. this is something that bothered me for years. I know this is how people behave, that the workflow allows and enables it, and the culture we've built around our tools enforces that. When I watch my own feelings before downvoting it isn't my rational self but my petty lizard-brain which does this. It feels good for 1 second before I feel small and petty. Often it bothers me that I did it and I return to the button 3 minutes later undoing the downvote for a neutral no-vote. Who is served by the downvote? Is it the downvoter who feels upset another person disagreeing and now able to vent? Or the downvotee who can use the experience to learn what language to avoid? Or is it only the platform provider that benefits? If it's only the platform it seems like a very blunt and rudimentary tool IMHO. Perhaps a downvote is still less inflammatory for discourse than an angry reply and so a compromise? Regardless it's still lizard-brained and impulsive every time I use it and the more I think about it the more I'm puzzled that this is form of behavior modification is all we have after so many years on the Web. The biggest lie we tell ourselves is that sharing these thoughts are actually well thought-through "opinions" when in reality it's just "thinking out loud" or "reactions to other people thinking out loud". It's not like writing a letter, diary or journal. The Tech moves fast but our social collective behavior takes millenia to adjust and cope. Anyway I wish there was a switch that allowed me to hide the downvote button, and if I wanted to enable it, then it could only be done by a forced delay of X hours into the future when activated. I'd like to eliminate downvoting as a behavior in myself in 2021 - not for others sake but for my own inner peace. And also because none of it matters really.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    Edit: I took a quick look at this at it's even easier than that. You can do it with just stylus/Stylish. @-moz-document domain("news.ycombinator.com") { [title=downvote] { display: none } } As a personal experiment, I'm going to leave this enabled for myself and see how long before I find the urge to downvote some comment. :D Original: You could hide the button with TamperMonkey pretty easily (send an email if you genuinely want to, looked at it, and couldn’t figure it out, and I’ll try to help) Then, the “only after reflection” I’d implement by forcing myself to use another browser or toggling the element title or the extension. I don’t downvote very often (probably 20:1 up to down vote ratio), but I do know that some of mine are still lizard brain.
    - DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
      thanks I will try your style receipt. it's fascinating to see how these things effects one emotionally.
    - LinuxBender 6y ago
      I found a way here on HN to use uBlock to set Dark Mode and undo the downvote colors. I don't remember who suggested the Dark Mode. This is from "My Filters" ycombinator.com##html:style(background-color: #3e3e42 !important) ycombinator.com###hnmain:style(background-color: #2E2E31 !important) ycombinator.com##.age:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.c00:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.c5a:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.c73:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.c82:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.c88:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.c9c:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.cae:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.cbe:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.cce:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.cdd:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.comhead > a:style(color: #dedede !important) ycombinator.com##.comhead:style(color: #dedede !important) ycombinator.com##.hnuser:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.subtext > a:link:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.subtext > a:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.subtext:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.title > a:style(color: #dedede !important) ycombinator.com##a:link:style(color: #ccc !important) The .c00 is the default text and the .c5a through .cdd are the 9 shades of gray.
medecau 6y ago
> Their activity detection does not inspire confidence. Google is an incredibly bad proxy for user activity. I mostly agree with you on Google but your post has no substance either.
WolfRazu 6y ago
I mean, if you use Gmail for instance it's incredibly likely I'll be dead when I stop checking my email for a year.
pc86 6y ago
Where in the guidelines does it say you must provide a comment if you're going to downvote? I've just read them twice and don't see it. In fact, the only thing I see relevant to your comment is: > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

freddie_mercury 6y ago

a) The guidelines don't say anything about needing to give a substantive response instead of downvoting. b) The guidelines do say not to complain about voting. c) Both the creator of HN and its moderators have repeatedly said that downvoting for disagreement is perfectly fine. "Downvoting has always been used to express disagreement." Paul Graham, February 16, 2008. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
off topic, and it makes for boring conversation. but: > "Downvoting has always been used to express disagreement." Paul Graham, February 16, 2008. this is something that bothered me for years. I know this is how people behave, that the workflow allows and enables it, and the culture we've built around our tools enforces that. When I watch my own feelings before downvoting it isn't my rational self but my petty lizard-brain which does this. It feels good for 1 second before I feel small and petty. Often it bothers me that I did it and I return to the button 3 minutes later undoing the downvote for a neutral no-vote. Who is served by the downvote? Is it the downvoter who feels upset another person disagreeing and now able to vent? Or the downvotee who can use the experience to learn what language to avoid? Or is it only the platform provider that benefits? If it's only the platform it seems like a very blunt and rudimentary tool IMHO. Perhaps a downvote is still less inflammatory for discourse than an angry reply and so a compromise? Regardless it's still lizard-brained and impulsive every time I use it and the more I think about it the more I'm puzzled that this is form of behavior modification is all we have after so many years on the Web. The biggest lie we tell ourselves is that sharing these thoughts are actually well thought-through "opinions" when in reality it's just "thinking out loud" or "reactions to other people thinking out loud". It's not like writing a letter, diary or journal. The Tech moves fast but our social collective behavior takes millenia to adjust and cope. Anyway I wish there was a switch that allowed me to hide the downvote button, and if I wanted to enable it, then it could only be done by a forced delay of X hours into the future when activated. I'd like to eliminate downvoting as a behavior in myself in 2021 - not for others sake but for my own inner peace. And also because none of it matters really.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  Edit: I took a quick look at this at it's even easier than that. You can do it with just stylus/Stylish. @-moz-document domain("news.ycombinator.com") { [title=downvote] { display: none } } As a personal experiment, I'm going to leave this enabled for myself and see how long before I find the urge to downvote some comment. :D Original: You could hide the button with TamperMonkey pretty easily (send an email if you genuinely want to, looked at it, and couldn’t figure it out, and I’ll try to help) Then, the “only after reflection” I’d implement by forcing myself to use another browser or toggling the element title or the extension. I don’t downvote very often (probably 20:1 up to down vote ratio), but I do know that some of mine are still lizard brain.
  - DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
    thanks I will try your style receipt. it's fascinating to see how these things effects one emotionally.
  - LinuxBender 6y ago
    I found a way here on HN to use uBlock to set Dark Mode and undo the downvote colors. I don't remember who suggested the Dark Mode. This is from "My Filters" ycombinator.com##html:style(background-color: #3e3e42 !important) ycombinator.com###hnmain:style(background-color: #2E2E31 !important) ycombinator.com##.age:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.c00:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.c5a:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.c73:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.c82:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.c88:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.c9c:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.cae:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.cbe:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.cce:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.cdd:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.comhead > a:style(color: #dedede !important) ycombinator.com##.comhead:style(color: #dedede !important) ycombinator.com##.hnuser:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.subtext > a:link:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.subtext > a:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.subtext:style(color: #ccc !important) ycombinator.com##.title > a:style(color: #dedede !important) ycombinator.com##a:link:style(color: #ccc !important) The .c00 is the default text and the .c5a through .cdd are the 9 shades of gray.

medecau 6y ago

> Their activity detection does not inspire confidence. Google is an incredibly bad proxy for user activity. I mostly agree with you on Google but your post has no substance either.

WolfRazu 6y ago

I mean, if you use Gmail for instance it's incredibly likely I'll be dead when I stop checking my email for a year.

pc86 6y ago

Where in the guidelines does it say you must provide a comment if you're going to downvote? I've just read them twice and don't see it. In fact, the only thing I see relevant to your comment is: > Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.