3 ms·

In that specific example I can’t think of any good reason for the government to track who has which gun other than to (one day) take them away. And we all know

by koolba 6y ago

In that specific example I can’t think of any good reason for the government to track who has which gun other than to (one day) take them away. And we all know that criminals are the ones that wouldn’t be in there at all.

xyzzy123 6y ago
There is certainly a hard core of criminals who go out of their way to get unregistered guns. But mostly there is not a bright line between "regular people" on one side and "criminals" on the other. Unregistered firearms don't completely negate the usefulness of keeping track of guns, in the same way that unregistered cars don't completely negate the value of having a car registration process. It's socially desirable to be able to investigate crimes involving guns, have some idea how many of what types exist and where, and to be able to restrict access to known firearms for specific individuals who might be having issues with violence or mental health. I think you could reasonably make the case that in the U.S. the cat is "so far out of the bag" that there's no point even trying, but in many other countries it's a useful system.
- gumby 6y ago
  What is the value of having. A car registration process? A serious question. We don’t have mandatory bike registration. Is it just taxes? We do driving licenses have so much info unrelated to operating a motor vehicle?
  - xyzzy123 6y ago
    Car registration helps primarily by assigning vehicle ownership / plate issuance, but indirectly with insurance, taxes, inspections & maintenance logging, crash records, ticketing, tracking stolen cars and parts, and more. Cars are expensive, deadly and ubiquitous and much of the regulation around them was written in blood. When you write "bike" I'm not sure if you mean bicycle or motorcycle. Most places, motorcycles which will be driven on public roads do require registration. I expect that bicycles don't require registration because they don't kill as many people who are not the rider, so nobody has really called for it.
ummonk 6y ago
Proving a criminal committed a crime is often difficult. Putting career criminals away would be a lot easier if all you firearm.
- chmod600 6y ago
  Gangsters aren't masterminds. They usually commit tons of crimes, large and small, including gun crimes. Inventing another crime doesn't seem likely to help your goal of "putting career criminals away".
  - ummonk 6y ago
    It helps substantially, if the new crime is one that's far easier to prove.
    - chmod600 6y ago
      Felon in possession of a firearm is easy to prove.
chmod600 6y ago
A database of gun owners, and their guns, would be helpful for organizing or calling the militia into service. But nobody advocating for registration has that idea in mind. They all want to use it against gun owners, somehow or another.

by koolba 6y ago

xyzzy123 6y ago

There is certainly a hard core of criminals who go out of their way to get unregistered guns. But mostly there is not a bright line between "regular people" on one side and "criminals" on the other. Unregistered firearms don't completely negate the usefulness of keeping track of guns, in the same way that unregistered cars don't completely negate the value of having a car registration process. It's socially desirable to be able to investigate crimes involving guns, have some idea how many of what types exist and where, and to be able to restrict access to known firearms for specific individuals who might be having issues with violence or mental health. I think you could reasonably make the case that in the U.S. the cat is "so far out of the bag" that there's no point even trying, but in many other countries it's a useful system.

gumby 6y ago
What is the value of having. A car registration process? A serious question. We don’t have mandatory bike registration. Is it just taxes? We do driving licenses have so much info unrelated to operating a motor vehicle?
- xyzzy123 6y ago
  Car registration helps primarily by assigning vehicle ownership / plate issuance, but indirectly with insurance, taxes, inspections & maintenance logging, crash records, ticketing, tracking stolen cars and parts, and more. Cars are expensive, deadly and ubiquitous and much of the regulation around them was written in blood. When you write "bike" I'm not sure if you mean bicycle or motorcycle. Most places, motorcycles which will be driven on public roads do require registration. I expect that bicycles don't require registration because they don't kill as many people who are not the rider, so nobody has really called for it.

ummonk 6y ago

Proving a criminal committed a crime is often difficult. Putting career criminals away would be a lot easier if all you firearm.

chmod600 6y ago
Gangsters aren't masterminds. They usually commit tons of crimes, large and small, including gun crimes. Inventing another crime doesn't seem likely to help your goal of "putting career criminals away".
- ummonk 6y ago
  It helps substantially, if the new crime is one that's far easier to prove.
  - chmod600 6y ago
    Felon in possession of a firearm is easy to prove.

chmod600 6y ago

A database of gun owners, and their guns, would be helpful for organizing or calling the militia into service. But nobody advocating for registration has that idea in mind. They all want to use it against gun owners, somehow or another.