3 ms·

Did you read the article? From the first paragraph... > The North Dakota state senate voted 36-11 on Tuesday not to pass a bill that would have required app st

Did you read the article? From the first paragraph... > The North Dakota state senate voted 36-11 on Tuesday not to pass a bill that would have required app stores to enable software developers to use their own payment processing software and avoid fees charged by Apple and Google. You can keep your walled garden and still allow app developers to use a third party payment processer.

bigshell 6y ago
I think it's not the best idea to allow apps on your store to use third party payment processors. Users won't have the same protections that the app store gives to them when they use a third party payment processor.
- spaetzleesser 6y ago
  What protections does the app store give over other payment processors?
  - LeoNatan25 6y ago
    Apple propaganda.
    - bigshell 6y ago
      I resent the idea that that my comment is somehow propaganda for Apple. I'm extremely opposed to the way they've closed off app distribution on iOS.
      - LeoNatan25 6y ago
        I meant that Apple’s claim of protection is propaganda, as is their claim that sideloading on iPhone will “kill the platform”.
  - Retric 6y ago
    Their not that great as far as payment processors go, but a sketchy app is going to chose the payment processor that’s the best fit for them and thus the worst for the consumer. A larger threat IMO is teaching people to enter CC info or worse banking info into apps.
  - shagie 6y ago
    Visibility: When I go to my account -> subscriptions on an iPhone, I can see all of the subscriptions that I have. Oh, hey, I've got a subscription to Microsoft Office 365 Personal. Annual billing, next date May 4, 2021. I click on that, and I see how much it is and I can click "cancel subscription". I've also got a subscription with Washington Post... somewhere... on some card. To cancel that involves going into WaPo's site and navigating to the account, and trying to find the billing and cancel and turn that off. Additionally, I can see "This subscription for Microsoft Office 365 Personal". Compare seeing a charge on March 4th show up that is for "Microsoft" - where did that come from? How do I find out what service its associated with? How do I cancel it? What account do I log in to to cancel it? Microsoft would be fairly clear... but what if it was for "Some Random Developer" - who even makes something that I'm getting billed for? What was it for? The name that something shows up for billing purposes doesn't always reflect the company that the billing is from. I've done "move everything off the card, and cancel the card" in the past to try to find out what reoccurring billing line item was hitting me for $20/month (years and years ago). I never figured it out as everything that I knew that I used that I transferred off didn't break or send me a "your monthly subscription didn't go through" ... it was probably for some service that I subscribed to but forgot about (though they didn't forget about me).
- greatgib 6y ago
  If the user, as an intelligent adult person decide to buy from this third party using the payment processor of the third party, this is his choice. Apple teaches users to become assisted depended stupid individuals. "Ohhh look at this nice shinny company that is here to take care of my best interests, lets withdraw all my rights to them". That makes me think about the book "the animal farm" book also from Orwell. Users that are almost begging to be put into servitude... Imagine if real life was like that? Like the post office looking at your mail and delivering only the one that they decide they approve (and serve their financial interests). - "oh, I see that this person bought a Xiaomi phone, it is probably not a secure device, let refuse to deliver it." - "Look, someone sent a 10e bill reimbursement inside a letter to their friend, they should have used our shitty money-remittance service, lets burn this letter"
SllX 6y ago
This isn’t a problem for governments to solve. I would like it if there were additional methods to install software on my phone OOB besides the App Store, but I it’s not the government’s problem.
- cccc4alll 6y ago
  The US government investigated and sued Microsoft for anti-trust violations many year ago. The anti-trust legal issues hampered Microsoft enough, so that smaller competitors, like Apple and Google, were able to gain traction in online and mobile space. If that didn't happen, you would most likely be a Microsoft serf speaking into a Microsoft Windows Pocket PC Phone consumer edition. Apple and Google has much tighter control over the platforms now than Microsoft ever dreamed of in wildest monopoly fantasies. Government can use the same anti-trust regulations to break up Apple and Google and monopoly control over mobile app stores. It's governments duty to keep fair competition in the marketplace, so innovation and free trade can happen for benefit of consumers.
  - SllX 6y ago
    In retrospect that whole case was a wash and wasn’t a good use of the Government’s time nor an appropriate use of its powers. Apple and Google were legitimately more competitive in digital music and web search/web advertising respectively without government intervention. They would also both go on to wreck Microsoft’s WinCE business under all of its various names and guises on both the high end and the low end. SanDisk and Yahoo were their biggest competitors in music and web services during this time. Microsoft’s attempts to purchase Yahoo were rebuffed by Yahoo management’s overvaluation of themselves. Your premise for this alternate history is flawed. I stand by my statement: this isn’t the government’s problem, any government’s problem, and especially not any American government’s problem.
    - cccc4alll 6y ago
      I recommend looking into history. Apple was failing as computer company. Apple only survived because Microsoft threw them a lifeline, licensing Office suite in Macs and investing in Apple. Microsoft wanted to show anti-trust regulators that there was software competition in PC market. If there was no anti-trust suit against Microsoft, Apple would have likely went bankrupt. Microsoft was on the way to owning Desktop and web space, by tightly integrating IE into Windows. Left on own, Microsoft would have routed all default browser traffic to Microsoft search engine on MSN. Google would have remained some student research prototype into an algorithm about backlinks.

bigshell 6y ago

I think it's not the best idea to allow apps on your store to use third party payment processors. Users won't have the same protections that the app store gives to them when they use a third party payment processor.

spaetzleesser 6y ago
What protections does the app store give over other payment processors?
- LeoNatan25 6y ago
  Apple propaganda.
  - bigshell 6y ago
    I resent the idea that that my comment is somehow propaganda for Apple. I'm extremely opposed to the way they've closed off app distribution on iOS.
    - LeoNatan25 6y ago
      I meant that Apple’s claim of protection is propaganda, as is their claim that sideloading on iPhone will “kill the platform”.
- Retric 6y ago
  Their not that great as far as payment processors go, but a sketchy app is going to chose the payment processor that’s the best fit for them and thus the worst for the consumer. A larger threat IMO is teaching people to enter CC info or worse banking info into apps.
- shagie 6y ago
  Visibility: When I go to my account -> subscriptions on an iPhone, I can see all of the subscriptions that I have. Oh, hey, I've got a subscription to Microsoft Office 365 Personal. Annual billing, next date May 4, 2021. I click on that, and I see how much it is and I can click "cancel subscription". I've also got a subscription with Washington Post... somewhere... on some card. To cancel that involves going into WaPo's site and navigating to the account, and trying to find the billing and cancel and turn that off. Additionally, I can see "This subscription for Microsoft Office 365 Personal". Compare seeing a charge on March 4th show up that is for "Microsoft" - where did that come from? How do I find out what service its associated with? How do I cancel it? What account do I log in to to cancel it? Microsoft would be fairly clear... but what if it was for "Some Random Developer" - who even makes something that I'm getting billed for? What was it for? The name that something shows up for billing purposes doesn't always reflect the company that the billing is from. I've done "move everything off the card, and cancel the card" in the past to try to find out what reoccurring billing line item was hitting me for $20/month (years and years ago). I never figured it out as everything that I knew that I used that I transferred off didn't break or send me a "your monthly subscription didn't go through" ... it was probably for some service that I subscribed to but forgot about (though they didn't forget about me).
greatgib 6y ago
If the user, as an intelligent adult person decide to buy from this third party using the payment processor of the third party, this is his choice. Apple teaches users to become assisted depended stupid individuals. "Ohhh look at this nice shinny company that is here to take care of my best interests, lets withdraw all my rights to them". That makes me think about the book "the animal farm" book also from Orwell. Users that are almost begging to be put into servitude... Imagine if real life was like that? Like the post office looking at your mail and delivering only the one that they decide they approve (and serve their financial interests). - "oh, I see that this person bought a Xiaomi phone, it is probably not a secure device, let refuse to deliver it." - "Look, someone sent a 10e bill reimbursement inside a letter to their friend, they should have used our shitty money-remittance service, lets burn this letter"

SllX 6y ago

This isn’t a problem for governments to solve. I would like it if there were additional methods to install software on my phone OOB besides the App Store, but I it’s not the government’s problem.

cccc4alll 6y ago
The US government investigated and sued Microsoft for anti-trust violations many year ago. The anti-trust legal issues hampered Microsoft enough, so that smaller competitors, like Apple and Google, were able to gain traction in online and mobile space. If that didn't happen, you would most likely be a Microsoft serf speaking into a Microsoft Windows Pocket PC Phone consumer edition. Apple and Google has much tighter control over the platforms now than Microsoft ever dreamed of in wildest monopoly fantasies. Government can use the same anti-trust regulations to break up Apple and Google and monopoly control over mobile app stores. It's governments duty to keep fair competition in the marketplace, so innovation and free trade can happen for benefit of consumers.
- SllX 6y ago
  In retrospect that whole case was a wash and wasn’t a good use of the Government’s time nor an appropriate use of its powers. Apple and Google were legitimately more competitive in digital music and web search/web advertising respectively without government intervention. They would also both go on to wreck Microsoft’s WinCE business under all of its various names and guises on both the high end and the low end. SanDisk and Yahoo were their biggest competitors in music and web services during this time. Microsoft’s attempts to purchase Yahoo were rebuffed by Yahoo management’s overvaluation of themselves. Your premise for this alternate history is flawed. I stand by my statement: this isn’t the government’s problem, any government’s problem, and especially not any American government’s problem.
  - cccc4alll 6y ago
    I recommend looking into history. Apple was failing as computer company. Apple only survived because Microsoft threw them a lifeline, licensing Office suite in Macs and investing in Apple. Microsoft wanted to show anti-trust regulators that there was software competition in PC market. If there was no anti-trust suit against Microsoft, Apple would have likely went bankrupt. Microsoft was on the way to owning Desktop and web space, by tightly integrating IE into Windows. Left on own, Microsoft would have routed all default browser traffic to Microsoft search engine on MSN. Google would have remained some student research prototype into an algorithm about backlinks.