4 ms·

I fear I'm one of these unsuspecting losers...except I guess that comment makes me suspecting. IDK, I don't want to play the game but it only gets worse in the

I fear I'm one of these unsuspecting losers...except I guess that comment makes me suspecting. IDK, I don't want to play the game but it only gets worse in the corporate world. I wish there was a good solution, where someone could play it straight and get rewarded justly. Your art work is beautiful by the way.

sillysaurusx 6y ago
Nah, that feeling is just corporate life. It’s not you. Or put another way, it would be a bit strange to say that everyone who works at a corporation is an unsuspecting loser. From what I’ve seen, academia is both worse and better. So don’t feel like you’re missing out on something. Just do what makes you happy.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
xiaolingxiao 6y ago
Thank you! I want the same, but sadly consumer culture drives so much of the U.S. (assuming you're in the U.S). And because consumer preference is so arbitrary, there's an irreducible amount of arbitrariness that flows through the system regardless of how well the internal org incentive is set up or managed. Basically I'm saying if the value of your product is imaginary, then the people who can sell imaginary value gets the top pickings. The most pure people I find are in quant finance, engaging the market at the abstract "number" level purifies everything, even if money corrupts at the individual level.
cjenkins 6y ago
Since we're commenting on a pg essay, IIRC startups are said to be the place where you CAN play it straight and get rewarded justly. The core idea being you can't fake or politic your way into making something users want. I wish I could find the link to the essay that directly states this but I'm having trouble finding it now (and my Google-fu doesn't seem to be strong enough to locate it).
- xiaolingxiao 6y ago
  Yeah i recall that essay. But getting a startup financed as a founder is a different story altogether. When you're asking people to invest on faith ( regardless of your MRR or what have you ), politics if back in the picture.
- totemandtoken 6y ago
  I remember that essay too. I think at the time, he was probably correct but now (at least as an outsider, from a distance) it has become as much a game as the corporate world. The idea of being a founder eventually became as much a trope as being a company man, so I'm not so sure its a viable solution anymore. Then again, I've never been in a startup or a founder so what do I know?
  - decentrality 6y ago
    I have seen former employees of mine join companies started in YC, and the ethos I've seen around YC in that way reminds me of how my great grandmother talked about working at General Electric. It's a decentralized Empire in vibe, with all the games and politics. It was really difficult to deprogram people once caught by the allure. People think in terms of their programs, like cookie cutters. Structuring SAFEs, doing mentoring and creating batches, and creating a kind of orthodoxy based on unorthodoxy done better, definitely hit a stale point. I think it's even to the point the founders could return and do it again based on what they learned, with more "stay hungry, stay foolish" again, albeit with veteran wisdom now, and it would be revolutionary all over again, upending its own past.
- jkbyc 6y ago
  The Lesson to Unlearn http://www.paulgraham.com/lesson.html http://www.paulgraham.com/lesson.html (I think)
  - cjenkins 6y ago
    I'm pretty sure that's the one! Takes a bit to get to the punchline but the idea that you want to look for tests that are unhackable is the big idea (and making a good product to get lots of users is the exemplar for an unhackable test). Thanks for finding that!

sillysaurusx 6y ago

Nah, that feeling is just corporate life. It’s not you. Or put another way, it would be a bit strange to say that everyone who works at a corporation is an unsuspecting loser. From what I’ve seen, academia is both worse and better. So don’t feel like you’re missing out on something. Just do what makes you happy.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

xiaolingxiao 6y ago

Thank you! I want the same, but sadly consumer culture drives so much of the U.S. (assuming you're in the U.S). And because consumer preference is so arbitrary, there's an irreducible amount of arbitrariness that flows through the system regardless of how well the internal org incentive is set up or managed. Basically I'm saying if the value of your product is imaginary, then the people who can sell imaginary value gets the top pickings. The most pure people I find are in quant finance, engaging the market at the abstract "number" level purifies everything, even if money corrupts at the individual level.

cjenkins 6y ago

Since we're commenting on a pg essay, IIRC startups are said to be the place where you CAN play it straight and get rewarded justly. The core idea being you can't fake or politic your way into making something users want. I wish I could find the link to the essay that directly states this but I'm having trouble finding it now (and my Google-fu doesn't seem to be strong enough to locate it).

xiaolingxiao 6y ago
Yeah i recall that essay. But getting a startup financed as a founder is a different story altogether. When you're asking people to invest on faith ( regardless of your MRR or what have you ), politics if back in the picture.
totemandtoken 6y ago
I remember that essay too. I think at the time, he was probably correct but now (at least as an outsider, from a distance) it has become as much a game as the corporate world. The idea of being a founder eventually became as much a trope as being a company man, so I'm not so sure its a viable solution anymore. Then again, I've never been in a startup or a founder so what do I know?
- decentrality 6y ago
  I have seen former employees of mine join companies started in YC, and the ethos I've seen around YC in that way reminds me of how my great grandmother talked about working at General Electric. It's a decentralized Empire in vibe, with all the games and politics. It was really difficult to deprogram people once caught by the allure. People think in terms of their programs, like cookie cutters. Structuring SAFEs, doing mentoring and creating batches, and creating a kind of orthodoxy based on unorthodoxy done better, definitely hit a stale point. I think it's even to the point the founders could return and do it again based on what they learned, with more "stay hungry, stay foolish" again, albeit with veteran wisdom now, and it would be revolutionary all over again, upending its own past.
jkbyc 6y ago
The Lesson to Unlearn http://www.paulgraham.com/lesson.html http://www.paulgraham.com/lesson.html (I think)
- cjenkins 6y ago
  I'm pretty sure that's the one! Takes a bit to get to the punchline but the idea that you want to look for tests that are unhackable is the big idea (and making a good product to get lots of users is the exemplar for an unhackable test). Thanks for finding that!