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I hate to see this. There are so many legitimate causes for the EFF to fight for and they choose this? The police trying to identify people who turned a legit

by 7174n6 6y ago

I hate to see this. There are so many legitimate causes for the EFF to fight for and they choose this? The police trying to identify people who turned a legitimate protest into riots filled with looting and criminal mischief? It seems to me the police are just trying to identify the bad actors, nothing more. I support the EFF but this effort is misguided and the article is disingenuous.

basilgohar 6y ago
The government getting around regulations of state surveillance by using private equipment owned by individuals but likely without their knowledge in partnership with large corporations to monitor the public sounds like exactly the kind of thing I want the EFF to use my donations to fight so that it does not become more pervasive. The fact that today it was used for something you do not object today is just temporary. The EFF looks down the path to what this means for the future and fights to prevent that.
elil17 6y ago
> It seems to me the police are just trying to identify bad actors My concern is that the expanded subpoena powers of the police allow for excessive amounts of parallel construction. Say (hypothetically - this obviously isn't what is happening here) a cop wants hit someone with as many traffic violations as possible because of a personal grudge. If they found an unrelated crime near an area where the person typically drives, they could then subpoena all the Ring videos from that area and use them to go after the person they were originally interested in. The problem is that when you grant police power in one case, they get to keep that power and use it whenever they want.
mleonhard 6y ago
Society is better off when police show probable cause before getting data of private citizens. In the article, EFF highlights two cases where police made unspecific requests for data of large swaths of people. Such requests have a chilling effect on our society. I think this is exactly what EFF should be doing. It's why I support them.
- darawk 6y ago
  No, society is better off when police don't have the right to take data without consent unless they have probable cause. They have consent here.
  - mleonhard 6y ago
    Do you think a chilling effect can only happen when police use subpoenas and search warrants? Or do you think that a chilling effect is OK as long as some non-police agree to each search? Please explain.
    - darawk 6y ago
      Do you think the existence of a chilling effect is good reason not to do something? Policing literally anything in any way causes a chilling effect. The mere existence of a chilling effect is not an argument against doing something.
      - mleonhard 6y ago
        > Do you think the existence of a chilling effect is good reason not to do something? Yes, because I value personal liberties.
        darawk 6y ago
        So, you're opposed to the entire criminal justice system?
dkdk8283 6y ago
Ring should not help contribute to the surveillance economy. Once a surveillance mechanism is in place it will be abused. There is no exception to this.

by 7174n6 6y ago

basilgohar 6y ago

The government getting around regulations of state surveillance by using private equipment owned by individuals but likely without their knowledge in partnership with large corporations to monitor the public sounds like exactly the kind of thing I want the EFF to use my donations to fight so that it does not become more pervasive. The fact that today it was used for something you do not object today is just temporary. The EFF looks down the path to what this means for the future and fights to prevent that.

elil17 6y ago

> It seems to me the police are just trying to identify bad actors My concern is that the expanded subpoena powers of the police allow for excessive amounts of parallel construction. Say (hypothetically - this obviously isn't what is happening here) a cop wants hit someone with as many traffic violations as possible because of a personal grudge. If they found an unrelated crime near an area where the person typically drives, they could then subpoena all the Ring videos from that area and use them to go after the person they were originally interested in. The problem is that when you grant police power in one case, they get to keep that power and use it whenever they want.

mleonhard 6y ago

Society is better off when police show probable cause before getting data of private citizens. In the article, EFF highlights two cases where police made unspecific requests for data of large swaths of people. Such requests have a chilling effect on our society. I think this is exactly what EFF should be doing. It's why I support them.

darawk 6y ago
No, society is better off when police don't have the right to take data without consent unless they have probable cause. They have consent here.
- mleonhard 6y ago
  Do you think a chilling effect can only happen when police use subpoenas and search warrants? Or do you think that a chilling effect is OK as long as some non-police agree to each search? Please explain.
  - darawk 6y ago
    Do you think the existence of a chilling effect is good reason not to do something? Policing literally anything in any way causes a chilling effect. The mere existence of a chilling effect is not an argument against doing something.
    - mleonhard 6y ago
      > Do you think the existence of a chilling effect is good reason not to do something? Yes, because I value personal liberties.
      - darawk 6y ago
        So, you're opposed to the entire criminal justice system?

dkdk8283 6y ago

Ring should not help contribute to the surveillance economy. Once a surveillance mechanism is in place it will be abused. There is no exception to this.