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I think this sort of false equality being constructed between peaceful protests against abuse of power and a seditionist insurrection against certifying electio

by nawgz 6y ago

I think this sort of false equality being constructed between peaceful protests against abuse of power and a seditionist insurrection against certifying election results is quite abhorrent, and your comment is certainly trying to normalize that equivalency by my reading. Why would I say this? I don't think "the bad thing" of insurrection and lying about election results has been done by both sides, and so I perceive your comment that says "but both sides" to be reductionist, in a biased fashion. Surely, one can condemn an insurrection against democracy without needing to condemn peaceful protests against abuse of power and extrajudicial murder which were coopted by violent antagonists and opportunists.

lolinder 6y ago
The equivalency is not being drawn between the people who stormed the capitol and the people who were peacefully holding Black Lives Matter signs last summer. The equivalency is being drawn between the people who stormed the capitol and the people who smashed in the door to a federal courthouse and threw fireworks inside. [0] [0]: https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/federal-courthouse-door-shattered-fireworks-exploded-inside-leading-to-arrest-of-19-year-old-complaint-says.html https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/federal-courthouse-...
- nawgz 6y ago
  Which is being defended and condoned by who? That is clearly a criminal act and should be punished. The insurrection on the other hand has a hearty crew of deniers / supporters / it didn’t happen but if it did it wasn’t violent. Again, this is still a false equivalency being constructed.
  - lolinder 6y ago
    This: > a hearty crew of deniers / supporters / it didn’t happen but if it did it wasn’t violent is exactly what we all saw for months regarding Portland's protests. I've seen it online and I've heard it in person. Exactly that way of talking about it: it didn't happen, but if it did, it would have been justified and/or nonviolent. I'm not defending the capitol riot, nor am I condemning the BLM protestors as a whole. What I am saying is let's not pretend that either one was a group of exclusively peaceful protestors. If we accept that there were violent crimes committed, then it follows police can and should be investigating the protests, because there were real crimes and real violence. We can debate whether they should be using Ring camera footage to do it, but some here are treating the mere fact that there's an investigation as an assault on free speech and free assembly. A more likely explanation is that they're investigating the assaults, robberies, and vandalism.
    - nawgz 6y ago
      > What I am saying is let's not pretend that either one was a group of exclusively peaceful protestors But how is that even relevant? These two events are not comparable and should not be spoken about in the same breath except for to say that the comparison is abhorrent. The protests were a months-long event that was legitimately protesting abuse of power, regardless of who coopted the frequent, massive, public demonstration to do public damage. The insurrection at the Capitol wasn't about anything other than disrupting the certification of the election. There can be no doubt about that. This is why well prepared and informed attackers were present and integrated with the crowd, which only existed for one day at one place that only one thing was happening at.

by nawgz 6y ago

lolinder 6y ago

The equivalency is not being drawn between the people who stormed the capitol and the people who were peacefully holding Black Lives Matter signs last summer. The equivalency is being drawn between the people who stormed the capitol and the people who smashed in the door to a federal courthouse and threw fireworks inside. [0] [0]: https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/federal-courthouse-door-shattered-fireworks-exploded-inside-leading-to-arrest-of-19-year-old-complaint-says.html https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/federal-courthouse-...

nawgz 6y ago
Which is being defended and condoned by who? That is clearly a criminal act and should be punished. The insurrection on the other hand has a hearty crew of deniers / supporters / it didn’t happen but if it did it wasn’t violent. Again, this is still a false equivalency being constructed.
- lolinder 6y ago
  This: > a hearty crew of deniers / supporters / it didn’t happen but if it did it wasn’t violent is exactly what we all saw for months regarding Portland's protests. I've seen it online and I've heard it in person. Exactly that way of talking about it: it didn't happen, but if it did, it would have been justified and/or nonviolent. I'm not defending the capitol riot, nor am I condemning the BLM protestors as a whole. What I am saying is let's not pretend that either one was a group of exclusively peaceful protestors. If we accept that there were violent crimes committed, then it follows police can and should be investigating the protests, because there were real crimes and real violence. We can debate whether they should be using Ring camera footage to do it, but some here are treating the mere fact that there's an investigation as an assault on free speech and free assembly. A more likely explanation is that they're investigating the assaults, robberies, and vandalism.
  - nawgz 6y ago
    > What I am saying is let's not pretend that either one was a group of exclusively peaceful protestors But how is that even relevant? These two events are not comparable and should not be spoken about in the same breath except for to say that the comparison is abhorrent. The protests were a months-long event that was legitimately protesting abuse of power, regardless of who coopted the frequent, massive, public demonstration to do public damage. The insurrection at the Capitol wasn't about anything other than disrupting the certification of the election. There can be no doubt about that. This is why well prepared and informed attackers were present and integrated with the crowd, which only existed for one day at one place that only one thing was happening at.