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I am a self-hosted partisan, so I obviously avoid Ring. But this article feels disingenuous in implying that there is something uniquely nefarious about Ring h
by bhauer 6y ago
I am a self-hosted partisan, so I obviously avoid Ring. But this article feels disingenuous in implying that there is something uniquely nefarious about Ring here, aside from perhaps the relative ease by which the authorities are able to request video. The police also can and do ask those who run self-hosted surveillance systems for video of events; I know because I've been asked before for video from mine.
So, yes, it's very easy to request video from Ring users. But they still do need to ask. The only way I am going to be genuinely upset about this is if they are able to get video without asking the individual owners.
- conception 6y agoOwners have to op into "Neighborhood Watch" for their neighborhoods but they are opting into package thieves, not protest monitoring. And it's all or nothing, not a per video request. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/08/28/doorbell-camera-firm-ring-has-partnered-with-police-forces-extending-surveillance-reach/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/08/28/doorbel... By tapping into “a perceived need for more self-surveillance and by playing on consumer fears about crime and security,” he added, Ring has found “a clever workaround for the development of a wholly new surveillance network, without the kind of scrutiny that would happen if it was coming from the police or government.”
- d1zzy 6y agoSo the request here is that Amazon makes it more possible to be more specific about what use you allow for the cameras and give users flexibility to not be all-or-nothing. Seems reasonable.
- kodah 6y agoWhen someone says, "perceived" I usually receive that as, "someone thinks they need this but they don't" Just some hasty research: https://www.crresearch.com/blog/2019-package-theft-statistics-report https://www.crresearch.com/blog/2019-package-theft-statistic... https://www.security.org/resources/stolen-packages-survey/ https://www.security.org/resources/stolen-packages-survey/ https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/01/10/package-theft-how-amazon-google-others-are-fighting-porch-pirates.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/01/10/package-theft-how-amazon... > With one single package potentially containing hundreds of dollars worth of goods, package thieves, or “porch pirates,” see an Amazon box as a ripe opportunity to steal. More than one-third (36%) have been a victim of package theft. Of those, 44% have had a package stolen at least twice. Most package theft victims (83%) said they contacted the seller or Amazon immediately after finding out their package had been stolen, while only 13% called the police right away. Overall, very few (11%) said the porch pirate was caught, but thankfully, 73% of package theft victims said they eventually received a refund. This seems to substantiate that package theft is at the very least a common problem for the people they polled. Whether Ring engineered a national surveillance network on purpose sounds like something that needs to be proven. Just talking about outcomes without examining what (legitimate) problem they're trying to solve does not help inform the public. The way I end up reading the situation is that some people want to aid the police to find package thieves but they don't want to aid police in finding people suspected of crimes during protests. Personally, I'll take this debate a step further: I don't think it should be legal to film anyone without their consent because that practice will always be abused by bad actors. Whether you're antagonizing people by recording them in public or you're surveiling a protest. My idea would be to craft laws saying you can't capture any video for anything off of your property. You could also encourage users to relocate their cameras to positions that only capture the front door vicinity.
- mola 6y agoProbably started that way, because it's a real problem. But then some enterprising DA understood the potential, and some BizDev ppl heard that lovely Kah Ching ringing in their ears. The rest is history.
- kodah 6y agoThat's certainly a possible explanation based on speculation and you'd probably have fanfare on a technology forum for warning against it. The problem is that nobody has determined that has happened (unless I'm missing something) and it was asserted as fact anyway.
- chokeartist 6y agoYeah how dare they use modern technology to tackle public safety. Oh wait I think I just had a moment of wrongthink.
- pnathan 6y agoNot only that, in Seattle - Amazon's home city - package theft is seen as a significant problem. So, I would imagine that deterring package theft is a real concern and a real quality of life issue for many Amazon ICs. I would argue a key root solution here is to for police to prioritize addressing property crime, rather than for private citizens to attempt to address the civic policing concerns on their own - which is what these cameras are doing, at their core.
- ryandrake 6y agoOr, don’t “deliver” a package by just leaving it out in the open on the person’s property somewhere. It’s always seemed bizarre to me that this counts as delivery in the USA. We should normalize bigger and more secure mailboxes or require an actual person to be available to receive a package.
- MikeDelta 6y agoIndeed, in Europe it is normal that people be home to receive the package. There are alternatives, but leaving it in front of the door is not one of them.
- goatcode 6y ago>they are opting into package thieves, not protest monitoring This is not explained in ToS?