3 ms·

Hydrogen paste has a similar range to that of gasoline

35 points by vlindos 6y ago

yorwba 6y ago
Discussed previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26027288 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26027288 (Also, the submitted link seems to use some kind of URL shortener. Don't do that!)
- dang 6y ago
  Yikes - link shorteners are banned on HN. URL changed from https://trib.al/E5llYxw https://trib.al/E5llYxw above. Thanks!
mohaine 6y ago
Sounds nice but the title is a bit off from the content. `The researchers also pointed out that the range of the paste can be compared with gasoline and may even exceed it.` Being able to be compared to gasoline is quite a bit different than being similar to gasoline. I would interpret that to being roughly the same order of magnitude, not similar. Also, the `may even exceed it` makes the entire thing sound fishy. It doesn't say `may even exceed it with more development` so does this mean they don't even know the current energy density?
naebother 6y ago
> All drivers need to do to refuel is swap out the old cartridge for a new one and fill a tank with water. Interesting. So the paste is being mixed with water to release the hydrogen gas? What happens to cartridge after? Do you just refill it with more paste? Why can't that be done at POS? Would be nice to have a more technical description of how the whole process works.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  It's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_hydride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_hydride It the energy storage is comparable to gasoline on a weight basis, it won't be viable to fuel cars with it by hand. 6 pounds a gallon for gasoline, 10 or 15 gallons, that's a lot of paste. The press release makes it clear that it compares favorably to hydrogen, not requiring huge infrastructure just to sell a little bit (because you can move the slurry a lot easier than cold/compressed hydrogen). So that's what they are chasing, a way to use hydrogen as fuel. It seems unlikely to be good enough to beat batteries.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
epistasis 6y ago
The previous discussion was of an article of much higher quality: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26159068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26159068 This is some sort of development on using magnesium hydride as a storage mechanism for hydrogen. You combine magnesium with hydrogen, get MgH2, and then when MgH2 comes into contact with water, the H2 is released. This is an old idea, and Wikipedia links to a 2006 effort along these lines: https://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01/safe_hydrogen_r.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01/safe_hydrogen_r.htm... that achieved a specific energy of 2kWh/kg and 1.5kWh/L. This is about 10x better than lithium ion. However it's about 5x worse than gasoline. But since ICE are horribly inefficient relics of the past, a typical engine is only about 20% efficient, so it cancels out. As for something like flight, jet engines are far more efficient than ICE, so this may or may not work there...
- aeortiz 6y ago
  ICE = Internal combustion engine, for those confused by the TLA.
NoOneNew 6y ago
Similar to gasoline? 1.9 kWh per liter (6.84 megajoules): https://www.zess.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/ikts/zess/documents/POWERPASTE_WHITE_PAPER_2019.pdf https://www.zess.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/ikts/zess/documen... Gasoline energy density per liter, 34.2 mega joules: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density 6.84 mj compares to 34.2 mj? Look, I want fossil fuels gone as the next cat. Overhype and lying through your rotten teeth doesn't help. Just adds fuel to big oil's rhetoric. Closing the gap to gasoline's energy density? Absolutely and awesome. Similar... no. I just want alt energy to be honest and level headed. That way no one can take things out of context. That's all.
- akvadrako 6y ago
  What I find is that cars only convert about 15% of gasoline's energy into power, so it really depends how efficient one can make a hydrogen engine.

35 points by vlindos 6y ago

Discussed previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26027288 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26027288 (Also, the submitted link seems to use some kind of URL shortener. Don't do that!)

dang 6y ago
Yikes - link shorteners are banned on HN. URL changed from https://trib.al/E5llYxw https://trib.al/E5llYxw above. Thanks!

mohaine 6y ago

Sounds nice but the title is a bit off from the content. `The researchers also pointed out that the range of the paste can be compared with gasoline and may even exceed it.` Being able to be compared to gasoline is quite a bit different than being similar to gasoline. I would interpret that to being roughly the same order of magnitude, not similar. Also, the `may even exceed it` makes the entire thing sound fishy. It doesn't say `may even exceed it with more development` so does this mean they don't even know the current energy density?

naebother 6y ago

> All drivers need to do to refuel is swap out the old cartridge for a new one and fill a tank with water. Interesting. So the paste is being mixed with water to release the hydrogen gas? What happens to cartridge after? Do you just refill it with more paste? Why can't that be done at POS? Would be nice to have a more technical description of how the whole process works.

maxerickson 6y ago
It's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_hydride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_hydride It the energy storage is comparable to gasoline on a weight basis, it won't be viable to fuel cars with it by hand. 6 pounds a gallon for gasoline, 10 or 15 gallons, that's a lot of paste. The press release makes it clear that it compares favorably to hydrogen, not requiring huge infrastructure just to sell a little bit (because you can move the slurry a lot easier than cold/compressed hydrogen). So that's what they are chasing, a way to use hydrogen as fuel. It seems unlikely to be good enough to beat batteries.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

epistasis 6y ago

The previous discussion was of an article of much higher quality: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26159068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26159068 This is some sort of development on using magnesium hydride as a storage mechanism for hydrogen. You combine magnesium with hydrogen, get MgH2, and then when MgH2 comes into contact with water, the H2 is released. This is an old idea, and Wikipedia links to a 2006 effort along these lines: https://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01/safe_hydrogen_r.html https://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01/safe_hydrogen_r.htm... that achieved a specific energy of 2kWh/kg and 1.5kWh/L. This is about 10x better than lithium ion. However it's about 5x worse than gasoline. But since ICE are horribly inefficient relics of the past, a typical engine is only about 20% efficient, so it cancels out. As for something like flight, jet engines are far more efficient than ICE, so this may or may not work there...

aeortiz 6y ago
ICE = Internal combustion engine, for those confused by the TLA.

NoOneNew 6y ago

Similar to gasoline? 1.9 kWh per liter (6.84 megajoules): https://www.zess.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/ikts/zess/documents/POWERPASTE_WHITE_PAPER_2019.pdf https://www.zess.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/ikts/zess/documen... Gasoline energy density per liter, 34.2 mega joules: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density 6.84 mj compares to 34.2 mj? Look, I want fossil fuels gone as the next cat. Overhype and lying through your rotten teeth doesn't help. Just adds fuel to big oil's rhetoric. Closing the gap to gasoline's energy density? Absolutely and awesome. Similar... no. I just want alt energy to be honest and level headed. That way no one can take things out of context. That's all.

akvadrako 6y ago
What I find is that cars only convert about 15% of gasoline's energy into power, so it really depends how efficient one can make a hydrogen engine.