4 ms·

>LAPD should tell the public how many hours of surveillance footage it gathered around these protests, and why. Gee I wonder why. Maybe to find all the people

by cwhiz 6y ago

>LAPD should tell the public how many hours of surveillance footage it gathered around these protests, and why. Gee I wonder why. Maybe to find all the people who were burning down buildings, looting, destroying property, throwing rocks and other projectiles, and stealing?

bitwize 6y ago
Chaos is only a problem when the right causes it. The chaos under discussion was born of justifiable anger and should be supported by morally conscious citizens. /s
- Fogest 6y ago
  While you're being downvoted, you're also not wrong. I have seen lots of people across reddit in large subreddits who are highly upvoted saying exactly this and not in a sarcastic manner. You also see it throughout Twitter. There are many people who actively think it is okay for these protests to be violent and destructive because of what they are fighting for. But then these same people will ostracized people on the right who have wild protests. It's like either violence and destruction is wrong when you're fighting for what you believe in, or it is right. People do often feels like breaking the law is okay when it is for their movement, but when it is for a movement they don't personally agree with it suddenly is not okay. But this is exactly why protests, especially larger scale ones need to be monitored. We have seen protests in many areas in America where destructive mobs start to descend on neighbourhoods at night to "protest". They will use things that make nose such as horns and cowbells and go through these neighbourhoods at night and cause a lot of conflict with the people in the neighborhoods. I can completely understand why police are getting this footage, because oftentimes a lot of petty crimes gets reported along the path a "protest" took place. You can find plenty of examples of these protests through neighbourhoods where someone has a Trump sign or American flag. Often those properties got some kind of vandalism or at the very least a mob chanting outside their house. While it may seem controversial what the police are doing, it seems completely reasonable to request camera footage from people as some of the people in the protest committed crimes at some point during the day and that footage could be used to help identify them. Protesting is one thing, but someone committing a crime should still face the consequences regardless of what they are fighting for. Unfortunately if the police were requesting footage from protests that happened from Trump supporters I doubt we would see any news articles about it.
  - TheRealSteel 6y ago
    >someone committing a crime should still face the consequences regardless of what they are fighting for. This was literally the entire point of the protests. Way to miss the point.
    - Fogest 6y ago
      The point of the protest is that they should be allowed to create destruction and violence and not have the police monitor them when they do that? You're not making a point here you're just dismissing me because I don't hold a view in support of protests that turn destructive.
      - dang 6y ago
        Please do not post ideological flamewar comments to HN. It's not what this site is for, regardless of which ideology you're battling for or against. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - dang 6y ago
      Would you please stop posting ideological flamewar comments to HN? You've been doing it repeatedly lately. It's not what this site is for, regardless of which ideology you're battling for or against. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - furr 6y ago
    > if the police were requesting footage from protests that happened from Trump supporters I doubt we would see any news articles about it Police (and the FBI) requested footage of the Trump supporters' protest at the Capitol that left one police officer dead. There were LOTS of news articles about it.
    - Fogest 6y ago
      I mean that's a bit of a silly comparison is it not? You're comparing a capital being stormed to a protest through a neighbourhood that I am referring to. Please don't use strawman arguments like that.
TheRealSteel 6y ago
To see people protesting the consistent and systemic murder of citizens of a particular race and the constant turning of a blind eye towards it by citizens and the system, and then to deliberately turn a blind eye towards it, proves precisely our point. Well done. YOU'RE the reason the protests needed to happen. YOU are the reason we have to march in the streets. Cops murder black people and get away with it. People have said we've had enough, we're protesting this. And out of those two things the only part you have a problem with is the people standing up to the murders? The only part you pick out to get mad at is the protests? Congratulations. You're the problem.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  You provide a good counterpoint to an extremely common narrative on hackernews, thank you. One simple point that shows the point being argued is too simplistic, is that most of the looting was done at night or at least after dark, most footage of protests was broad daylight. Police beating up journalists and protestors is just masturbation and has nothing to do with their ability or failure to apprehend looters.
- da_big_ghey 6y ago
  He didn't say the protests were wrong. He talked about policemen doing their jobs and tracking down the crime. I would think that peaceful protesters would support this, as the criminals ended up tarring all protesters with the same brush and de-legitimizing the point the protests were trying to make. And no, I don't think that someone who is mad about crime is the reason that the protests happened. As I recall, it was because a policeman murdered a black, not because someone said that criminals should be found and arrested. An original objective was to ensure that Chauvin et al. faced justice for their crimes, so punishing those who commit other crimes seems consistent with the principles behind the protests. It is ridiculous to characterize criminals as "the people standing up to the murders". Cwhiz clearly stated that his problem was with the crinimals, not the protesters. You have gone past an uncharitable reading to responding to points he simply did not make.
- eplanit 6y ago
  I thought that after 1/6, the consensus shifted to be that "burning down buildings, looting, destroying property, throwing rocks and other projectiles, and stealing" are again _not_ acceptable forms of protest?

by cwhiz 6y ago

bitwize 6y ago

Chaos is only a problem when the right causes it. The chaos under discussion was born of justifiable anger and should be supported by morally conscious citizens. /s

Fogest 6y ago
While you're being downvoted, you're also not wrong. I have seen lots of people across reddit in large subreddits who are highly upvoted saying exactly this and not in a sarcastic manner. You also see it throughout Twitter. There are many people who actively think it is okay for these protests to be violent and destructive because of what they are fighting for. But then these same people will ostracized people on the right who have wild protests. It's like either violence and destruction is wrong when you're fighting for what you believe in, or it is right. People do often feels like breaking the law is okay when it is for their movement, but when it is for a movement they don't personally agree with it suddenly is not okay. But this is exactly why protests, especially larger scale ones need to be monitored. We have seen protests in many areas in America where destructive mobs start to descend on neighbourhoods at night to "protest". They will use things that make nose such as horns and cowbells and go through these neighbourhoods at night and cause a lot of conflict with the people in the neighborhoods. I can completely understand why police are getting this footage, because oftentimes a lot of petty crimes gets reported along the path a "protest" took place. You can find plenty of examples of these protests through neighbourhoods where someone has a Trump sign or American flag. Often those properties got some kind of vandalism or at the very least a mob chanting outside their house. While it may seem controversial what the police are doing, it seems completely reasonable to request camera footage from people as some of the people in the protest committed crimes at some point during the day and that footage could be used to help identify them. Protesting is one thing, but someone committing a crime should still face the consequences regardless of what they are fighting for. Unfortunately if the police were requesting footage from protests that happened from Trump supporters I doubt we would see any news articles about it.
- TheRealSteel 6y ago
  >someone committing a crime should still face the consequences regardless of what they are fighting for. This was literally the entire point of the protests. Way to miss the point.
  - Fogest 6y ago
    The point of the protest is that they should be allowed to create destruction and violence and not have the police monitor them when they do that? You're not making a point here you're just dismissing me because I don't hold a view in support of protests that turn destructive.
    - dang 6y ago
      Please do not post ideological flamewar comments to HN. It's not what this site is for, regardless of which ideology you're battling for or against. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - dang 6y ago
    Would you please stop posting ideological flamewar comments to HN? You've been doing it repeatedly lately. It's not what this site is for, regardless of which ideology you're battling for or against. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- furr 6y ago
  > if the police were requesting footage from protests that happened from Trump supporters I doubt we would see any news articles about it Police (and the FBI) requested footage of the Trump supporters' protest at the Capitol that left one police officer dead. There were LOTS of news articles about it.
  - Fogest 6y ago
    I mean that's a bit of a silly comparison is it not? You're comparing a capital being stormed to a protest through a neighbourhood that I am referring to. Please don't use strawman arguments like that.

TheRealSteel 6y ago

To see people protesting the consistent and systemic murder of citizens of a particular race and the constant turning of a blind eye towards it by citizens and the system, and then to deliberately turn a blind eye towards it, proves precisely our point. Well done. YOU'RE the reason the protests needed to happen. YOU are the reason we have to march in the streets. Cops murder black people and get away with it. People have said we've had enough, we're protesting this. And out of those two things the only part you have a problem with is the people standing up to the murders? The only part you pick out to get mad at is the protests? Congratulations. You're the problem.

mhh__ 6y ago
You provide a good counterpoint to an extremely common narrative on hackernews, thank you. One simple point that shows the point being argued is too simplistic, is that most of the looting was done at night or at least after dark, most footage of protests was broad daylight. Police beating up journalists and protestors is just masturbation and has nothing to do with their ability or failure to apprehend looters.
da_big_ghey 6y ago
He didn't say the protests were wrong. He talked about policemen doing their jobs and tracking down the crime. I would think that peaceful protesters would support this, as the criminals ended up tarring all protesters with the same brush and de-legitimizing the point the protests were trying to make. And no, I don't think that someone who is mad about crime is the reason that the protests happened. As I recall, it was because a policeman murdered a black, not because someone said that criminals should be found and arrested. An original objective was to ensure that Chauvin et al. faced justice for their crimes, so punishing those who commit other crimes seems consistent with the principles behind the protests. It is ridiculous to characterize criminals as "the people standing up to the murders". Cwhiz clearly stated that his problem was with the crinimals, not the protesters. You have gone past an uncharitable reading to responding to points he simply did not make.
eplanit 6y ago
I thought that after 1/6, the consensus shifted to be that "burning down buildings, looting, destroying property, throwing rocks and other projectiles, and stealing" are again _not_ acceptable forms of protest?