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As a .NET developer, I'm not in any way worried that they're going to replace the .NET framework as their primary enterprise platform, with javascript. For thi

As a .NET developer, I'm not in any way worried that they're going to replace the .NET framework as their primary enterprise platform, with javascript. For this tile UI, I'm a little surprised - if only because it's quite different from how WinPhone7 works (isn't it?).

keyle 15y ago
Let's face it. Thinking that WPF/C# can be replaced by HTML/JS is foolish at best. The html apps will be the widgetty type applications, while the real working computing applications will be written in solid .NET. My only concern is this integration of one into the other that they show. It looks like slapping a pig on top of a cow and asking for babies.
- robgough 15y ago
  I would have preferred if they had somehow integrated/replaced the system tray functionality with that of the tiling interface... as my understanding the tiles can mimic most of this functionality, if not do a little more. I dare say most the concern I'm seeing about this so far is that they've simply not gone far enough... Unless the tiling interface is the primary mode of use, then most people simply won't use it and it'll be relegated to the list of features the OS has, that simply no one uses. Think "Windows SideShow". Of course, this all depends on what MS are planning on doing - and I think they've made yet another PR misstep (even if it's only to developers) in that they've simply not released enough information. I can't decide if they're teasing deliberately in an attempt to drum up interest (working, but I would argue that it's more worry than interest to their target demographic) or whether they actually don't have much more than this demo and that they don't know what their long term plans are (even more worrying?)
  - kenjackson 15y ago
    I dare say most the concern I'm seeing about this so far is that they've simply not gone far enough... Unless the tiling interface is the primary mode of use, then most people simply won't use it and it'll be relegated to the list of features the OS has, that simply no one uses. I think their intent is that this new UI is the Windows UI. I think they're going to push devs to use this new UI for all apps unless they need to go to the old UI. Recall that native apps will not be cross platform, so there's motivation for devs to target this new UI to run on x86 and all the ARM variants.
- StrawberryFrog 15y ago
  Thinking that WPF/C# can be replaced by HTML/JS is foolish at best. Why? MS has recently given talks on pretty much that topic: Giorgio Sardo: HTML 5 for Silverlight devs http://channel9.msdn.com/events/MIX/MIX11/HTM14 http://channel9.msdn.com/events/MIX/MIX11/HTM14 This is Ui layer only, sure. But that's probably what you meant by "WPF/C#"
  - kenjackson 15y ago
    I agree. I'd like to know what can't be done in HTML that can be done in WPF. WPF is a lot nicer, but HTML is usable. JS, feels like a huge departure from C#. I think ppl use the .NET stack because they like things like static typing, generics, the BCL, etc... Even something like a halfway decent editor for JS seems to be missing.
    - WayneDB 15y ago
      A number of things can't be done in HTML that can be done in WPF. Since WPF has a sane architecture, you have access to a huge set of high quality UI components (grids, editors, etc) that can simply be dropped into your applications. 15 years on and web developers still don't have this. The components that they do have don't follow a common object model or anything like what WPF has, so they're much harder to work with. So that is one very important quality that you simply can't have in HTML.
      - kenjackson 15y ago
        I'm not HTML expert, but I've seen things like Wijmo and controls from Telerik that allow you to drop in jQuery UI elements just like WPF controls. They have things like grids, charts, calendars, etc... WPF does have lookless controls and triggers, but I'm not sure I'd make a dev platform choice based on that.
        WayneDB 15y ago
        Wijmo/Telerik and others bring the web platform _slightly_ closer to the level of quality and ease of use that can be had in a desktop platform, but let's be honest...browsers really don't know the difference between a bunch of text and a bunch of advanced controls (e.g. Grids, Menus, Dialogs, etc.) and it shows, particularly in the areas of focus and selection. Also, keyboard acceleration is severely lacking in every HTML advanced component set that I've ever seen. The whole scene is just dismal compared to what can be had with a decent desktop kit IMO. I am thinking it will be another 5 years before the web really catches up, but that doesn't help me much because I'm lazy _right now_ (EDIT: meaning, I don't want to have to work that hard for all those little niceties, but I still want them).
- phishphood 15y ago
  >> Thinking that WPF/C# can be replaced by HTML/JS is foolish at best. Take a look at the latest JS development tools, jQuery/ExtJS/backbone. It is the future of the UI development
  - keyle 15y ago
    You can't get the raw power that you get from WPF and BAML. You can't tap into the GPU for free and multi-thread client side at ease. I agree web platforms are the future. It's distant though.
S_A_P 15y ago
It is. While Im not really worried that .NET will be replaced by HTML 5, I really wonder why the windows team wouldnt want to try and merge the development models for WP7 and windows 8. If they really want this platform to run on tablets, why would you not want to leverage WP7 code a'la iOS???? I think that it is great if the HTML/JavaScript model is an additional way to draw in developers to the windows platform, but the fragmentation is not a good plan IMHO.
justincormack 15y ago
My guess is they had to release WP7 when they did, and IE9 was not ready to ship on it, so the Silverlight was a stopgap. I think the HTML5 people have won the arguments in much of Microsoft, and Silverlight will be deprecated gradually on WP.

keyle 15y ago

Let's face it. Thinking that WPF/C# can be replaced by HTML/JS is foolish at best. The html apps will be the widgetty type applications, while the real working computing applications will be written in solid .NET. My only concern is this integration of one into the other that they show. It looks like slapping a pig on top of a cow and asking for babies.

robgough 15y ago
I would have preferred if they had somehow integrated/replaced the system tray functionality with that of the tiling interface... as my understanding the tiles can mimic most of this functionality, if not do a little more. I dare say most the concern I'm seeing about this so far is that they've simply not gone far enough... Unless the tiling interface is the primary mode of use, then most people simply won't use it and it'll be relegated to the list of features the OS has, that simply no one uses. Think "Windows SideShow". Of course, this all depends on what MS are planning on doing - and I think they've made yet another PR misstep (even if it's only to developers) in that they've simply not released enough information. I can't decide if they're teasing deliberately in an attempt to drum up interest (working, but I would argue that it's more worry than interest to their target demographic) or whether they actually don't have much more than this demo and that they don't know what their long term plans are (even more worrying?)
- kenjackson 15y ago
  I dare say most the concern I'm seeing about this so far is that they've simply not gone far enough... Unless the tiling interface is the primary mode of use, then most people simply won't use it and it'll be relegated to the list of features the OS has, that simply no one uses. I think their intent is that this new UI is the Windows UI. I think they're going to push devs to use this new UI for all apps unless they need to go to the old UI. Recall that native apps will not be cross platform, so there's motivation for devs to target this new UI to run on x86 and all the ARM variants.
StrawberryFrog 15y ago
Thinking that WPF/C# can be replaced by HTML/JS is foolish at best. Why? MS has recently given talks on pretty much that topic: Giorgio Sardo: HTML 5 for Silverlight devs http://channel9.msdn.com/events/MIX/MIX11/HTM14 http://channel9.msdn.com/events/MIX/MIX11/HTM14 This is Ui layer only, sure. But that's probably what you meant by "WPF/C#"
- kenjackson 15y ago
  I agree. I'd like to know what can't be done in HTML that can be done in WPF. WPF is a lot nicer, but HTML is usable. JS, feels like a huge departure from C#. I think ppl use the .NET stack because they like things like static typing, generics, the BCL, etc... Even something like a halfway decent editor for JS seems to be missing.
  - WayneDB 15y ago
    A number of things can't be done in HTML that can be done in WPF. Since WPF has a sane architecture, you have access to a huge set of high quality UI components (grids, editors, etc) that can simply be dropped into your applications. 15 years on and web developers still don't have this. The components that they do have don't follow a common object model or anything like what WPF has, so they're much harder to work with. So that is one very important quality that you simply can't have in HTML.
    - kenjackson 15y ago
      I'm not HTML expert, but I've seen things like Wijmo and controls from Telerik that allow you to drop in jQuery UI elements just like WPF controls. They have things like grids, charts, calendars, etc... WPF does have lookless controls and triggers, but I'm not sure I'd make a dev platform choice based on that.
      - WayneDB 15y ago
        Wijmo/Telerik and others bring the web platform _slightly_ closer to the level of quality and ease of use that can be had in a desktop platform, but let's be honest...browsers really don't know the difference between a bunch of text and a bunch of advanced controls (e.g. Grids, Menus, Dialogs, etc.) and it shows, particularly in the areas of focus and selection. Also, keyboard acceleration is severely lacking in every HTML advanced component set that I've ever seen. The whole scene is just dismal compared to what can be had with a decent desktop kit IMO. I am thinking it will be another 5 years before the web really catches up, but that doesn't help me much because I'm lazy _right now_ (EDIT: meaning, I don't want to have to work that hard for all those little niceties, but I still want them).
phishphood 15y ago
>> Thinking that WPF/C# can be replaced by HTML/JS is foolish at best. Take a look at the latest JS development tools, jQuery/ExtJS/backbone. It is the future of the UI development
- keyle 15y ago
  You can't get the raw power that you get from WPF and BAML. You can't tap into the GPU for free and multi-thread client side at ease. I agree web platforms are the future. It's distant though.

S_A_P 15y ago

It is. While Im not really worried that .NET will be replaced by HTML 5, I really wonder why the windows team wouldnt want to try and merge the development models for WP7 and windows 8. If they really want this platform to run on tablets, why would you not want to leverage WP7 code a'la iOS???? I think that it is great if the HTML/JavaScript model is an additional way to draw in developers to the windows platform, but the fragmentation is not a good plan IMHO.

justincormack 15y ago

My guess is they had to release WP7 when they did, and IE9 was not ready to ship on it, so the Silverlight was a stopgap. I think the HTML5 people have won the arguments in much of Microsoft, and Silverlight will be deprecated gradually on WP.