4 ms·

Still Think The Mouse Isn’t Dead?

11 points by acron0 15y ago

shellehs 15y ago
I assume that the author does not play games. I don't see a touchpad, or something touchable input devices can be better than a mouse, say, when you are playing SC or WarIII. how can you select single unit then move it quickly use finger or stick?
- ugh 15y ago
  The mouse might become an exclusive gaming device – like today’s gamepads. It actually is for me. I rarely play games but from time to time I do and on those rare occasions I dust of my mouse. (Sometimes I’m too lazy to get the mouse and play a few minutes of Minecraft with the trackpad.) I can’t imagine using that Windows UI with a mouse. It seems clumsy. You need a touchscreen or a large trackpad with gestures. I was just fooling around with Lion which is a lot less radical than Windows 8 but it was still obvious that you need a trackpad with gestures. (I have a 2007 MacBook Pro which doesn’t support any gestures except for two-finger scrolling. It’s working ok but it’s obvious that gestures would make the experience so much nicer.) Calling the mouse “dead” might be hyperbole but if the mouse indeed becomes this decade’s gamepad or trackball I would argue that the hyperbole is justified.
tobylane 15y ago
I don't want to be stuck with a touchscreen. Screens should be ~30cm in front of you, at your eye height. I don't want to have to reach up there constantly.
- scrrr 15y ago
  I agree. However this doesn't exclude operation with a touch-pad, like for example Apple's stand-alone Bluetooth touch-pad.
edtechdev 15y ago
This MG Sieger story is 32 minutes old, and it was posted here 25 minutes ago. Same thing with every John Gruber post. Laptops have already been sold without mice for over a decade - they have trackpads (or the buttonless clickpads). But of course many are going to still use the mouse for things such as playing games on a Windows PC, touch screen or not. And the mouse is more efficient if you are using it all day (like for work), as you don't have to reach up to the screen all the time (which is why the Minority Report stuff doesn't work well in real life). This is also why for example the Asus Slate comes with a bluetooth keyboard, because using an onscreen keyboard all day long for example would be horrible and slow. A more interesting question is whether the stylus will come back or not. The HTC Flyer with stylus had over 3 million pre-orders, and the Tablet PCs like the HP tm2t or Lenovo tablets are starting to come down in price.
jasonkester 15y ago
I'm sitting in front of a laptop with a bit ol' touchpad that does all the cool things the author is all excited about. And I clicked the link to this article with my mouse. QED, the mouse is doing just fine. It's simply a better input device for most purposes.
killerswan 15y ago
Two words: gorilla arm. Big fat finger touch systems aren't good for everything. A Kinect sort of interface could do it, though...
- ugh 15y ago
  Doesn’t Kinect require you to wave your arms around? That seems tiring. To say nothing of the space requirements.
  - killerswan 15y ago
    How about when it can reliably do finger tracking?
JonoW 15y ago
Am I alone in my hatred of touch-pads? I'm 10x more productive on a desktop with a mouse compared to a touch-pad on a laptop.
- bzupnick 15y ago
  yes, you are alone. the fact is that no matter how used to the mouse we are, it isnt natural. think of the ease of switching desktops in ubuntu with the mouse or even the keyboard shortcuts, then to simply swipe into the next desktop using your ipad. the ease is infinitely greater. the proof of this is the success of gmail motion ;)
- robin_reala 15y ago
  Have you used a recent Apple touchpad and gestures? For certain things (Photoshop mostly) I’d go with a mouse, but for coding and browsing I’m happier with a touchpad.
  - JonoW 15y ago
    Nope I haven't, I'm going on standard PC and Macbook (not pro) touch-pads that I've used. I'd like to try one of the new Apple trackpads out, but don't know anyone that has one.
    - robin_reala 15y ago
      Next time you’re near an Apple store pop in and have a play. It’s much better than any non-Apple trackpad I’ve used (though I haven’t used many recent PC trackpads to be fair).
jemeshsu 15y ago
Have not been using a mouse for over 2 years. The trackpad on my MacBook Pro replaces it. But I can see mouse is needed for WW type games or intensive graphics work.
- bzupnick 15y ago
  i disagree i think that the way games are designed now with there midget buttons need a mouse. but i think if they can be re-designed and re-thought of. it can work. for example, some itouch games would be horrible with a mouse, if not impossible. but the games are great on a touch screen like that. for example the ipad game slice
henrikschroder 15y ago
Watch what they’re doing in those videos. How are you going to do some of those gestures with a mouse? How are you going to do those gestures if you're sitting at your desk with two or three >20" monitors?
- ugh 15y ago
  Trackpad (mentioned in the article).
mhd 15y ago
I think a lot more has to happen for the mouse to die. It might get less popular in the computing mainstream, if the new-fangled devices really take over (i.e. no more PC as a "hub"), but that just means we're back to the "workstation" days, and the expert users will still use that (+ keyboard shortcuts etc.). The infamous "gorilla arm" has been mentioned here already. For a 8+ hours computing device, a bit more has to change than just tablets and Windows 8. We'd need some kind of super-ergonomic version of the Tron CEO desk. NB: For those professionals who aren't using their mouse due to super-keyboard-efficiency (or possible pseudo-efficiency), it might as well replace it for the few times they'll use it. Whether the occasional moment of direct manipulation is handled by a mouse, trackball, trackpad, IBM nipple or touchscreen isn't that important.
TomOfTTB 15y ago
I generally think MG Siegler is one of the better TechCrunch writers but this article is exactly why the site has developed the reputation it has. Pure sensationalism based on a weak understanding of both the facts and the history of the computing industry. The truth is there is not a Magic Trackpad for the PC. Trackpads on the PC tend to suck. Microsoft is pushing touchscreens and touchscreens on PCs do create ergonomic problems (In tests people's shoulders literally ache after a day of use) Beyond that while the iPad is fantastic it works because the interface is designed around touch. Meaning everything has to be a lot bigger (since a mouse can click on a single pixel while a finger is far less precise). That leaves less screen space (which is why you have to pinch and zoom a lot when you use the iPad on the web). That's fine for the limited scenarios but not practical if you're doing serious computing work like a balance sheet in Excel. Finally anyone who has watched the technology industry for any length of time knows inferior solutions win out if all parties don't agree on the way forward. Or in other words if Apple backs the Magic Trackpad and Microsoft backs the touchscreen then the Mouse will likely stick around because it's the common denominator. At least based on how history has unfolded in the past.

11 points by acron0 15y ago

I assume that the author does not play games. I don't see a touchpad, or something touchable input devices can be better than a mouse, say, when you are playing SC or WarIII. how can you select single unit then move it quickly use finger or stick?

ugh 15y ago
The mouse might become an exclusive gaming device – like today’s gamepads. It actually is for me. I rarely play games but from time to time I do and on those rare occasions I dust of my mouse. (Sometimes I’m too lazy to get the mouse and play a few minutes of Minecraft with the trackpad.) I can’t imagine using that Windows UI with a mouse. It seems clumsy. You need a touchscreen or a large trackpad with gestures. I was just fooling around with Lion which is a lot less radical than Windows 8 but it was still obvious that you need a trackpad with gestures. (I have a 2007 MacBook Pro which doesn’t support any gestures except for two-finger scrolling. It’s working ok but it’s obvious that gestures would make the experience so much nicer.) Calling the mouse “dead” might be hyperbole but if the mouse indeed becomes this decade’s gamepad or trackball I would argue that the hyperbole is justified.

tobylane 15y ago

I don't want to be stuck with a touchscreen. Screens should be ~30cm in front of you, at your eye height. I don't want to have to reach up there constantly.

scrrr 15y ago
I agree. However this doesn't exclude operation with a touch-pad, like for example Apple's stand-alone Bluetooth touch-pad.

edtechdev 15y ago

This MG Sieger story is 32 minutes old, and it was posted here 25 minutes ago. Same thing with every John Gruber post. Laptops have already been sold without mice for over a decade - they have trackpads (or the buttonless clickpads). But of course many are going to still use the mouse for things such as playing games on a Windows PC, touch screen or not. And the mouse is more efficient if you are using it all day (like for work), as you don't have to reach up to the screen all the time (which is why the Minority Report stuff doesn't work well in real life). This is also why for example the Asus Slate comes with a bluetooth keyboard, because using an onscreen keyboard all day long for example would be horrible and slow. A more interesting question is whether the stylus will come back or not. The HTC Flyer with stylus had over 3 million pre-orders, and the Tablet PCs like the HP tm2t or Lenovo tablets are starting to come down in price.

jasonkester 15y ago

I'm sitting in front of a laptop with a bit ol' touchpad that does all the cool things the author is all excited about. And I clicked the link to this article with my mouse. QED, the mouse is doing just fine. It's simply a better input device for most purposes.

killerswan 15y ago

Two words: gorilla arm. Big fat finger touch systems aren't good for everything. A Kinect sort of interface could do it, though...

ugh 15y ago
Doesn’t Kinect require you to wave your arms around? That seems tiring. To say nothing of the space requirements.
- killerswan 15y ago
  How about when it can reliably do finger tracking?

JonoW 15y ago

Am I alone in my hatred of touch-pads? I'm 10x more productive on a desktop with a mouse compared to a touch-pad on a laptop.

bzupnick 15y ago
yes, you are alone. the fact is that no matter how used to the mouse we are, it isnt natural. think of the ease of switching desktops in ubuntu with the mouse or even the keyboard shortcuts, then to simply swipe into the next desktop using your ipad. the ease is infinitely greater. the proof of this is the success of gmail motion ;)
robin_reala 15y ago
Have you used a recent Apple touchpad and gestures? For certain things (Photoshop mostly) I’d go with a mouse, but for coding and browsing I’m happier with a touchpad.
- JonoW 15y ago
  Nope I haven't, I'm going on standard PC and Macbook (not pro) touch-pads that I've used. I'd like to try one of the new Apple trackpads out, but don't know anyone that has one.
  - robin_reala 15y ago
    Next time you’re near an Apple store pop in and have a play. It’s much better than any non-Apple trackpad I’ve used (though I haven’t used many recent PC trackpads to be fair).

jemeshsu 15y ago

Have not been using a mouse for over 2 years. The trackpad on my MacBook Pro replaces it. But I can see mouse is needed for WW type games or intensive graphics work.

bzupnick 15y ago
i disagree i think that the way games are designed now with there midget buttons need a mouse. but i think if they can be re-designed and re-thought of. it can work. for example, some itouch games would be horrible with a mouse, if not impossible. but the games are great on a touch screen like that. for example the ipad game slice

henrikschroder 15y ago

Watch what they’re doing in those videos. How are you going to do some of those gestures with a mouse? How are you going to do those gestures if you're sitting at your desk with two or three >20" monitors?

ugh 15y ago
Trackpad (mentioned in the article).

mhd 15y ago

I think a lot more has to happen for the mouse to die. It might get less popular in the computing mainstream, if the new-fangled devices really take over (i.e. no more PC as a "hub"), but that just means we're back to the "workstation" days, and the expert users will still use that (+ keyboard shortcuts etc.). The infamous "gorilla arm" has been mentioned here already. For a 8+ hours computing device, a bit more has to change than just tablets and Windows 8. We'd need some kind of super-ergonomic version of the Tron CEO desk. NB: For those professionals who aren't using their mouse due to super-keyboard-efficiency (or possible pseudo-efficiency), it might as well replace it for the few times they'll use it. Whether the occasional moment of direct manipulation is handled by a mouse, trackball, trackpad, IBM nipple or touchscreen isn't that important.

TomOfTTB 15y ago

I generally think MG Siegler is one of the better TechCrunch writers but this article is exactly why the site has developed the reputation it has. Pure sensationalism based on a weak understanding of both the facts and the history of the computing industry. The truth is there is not a Magic Trackpad for the PC. Trackpads on the PC tend to suck. Microsoft is pushing touchscreens and touchscreens on PCs do create ergonomic problems (In tests people's shoulders literally ache after a day of use) Beyond that while the iPad is fantastic it works because the interface is designed around touch. Meaning everything has to be a lot bigger (since a mouse can click on a single pixel while a finger is far less precise). That leaves less screen space (which is why you have to pinch and zoom a lot when you use the iPad on the web). That's fine for the limited scenarios but not practical if you're doing serious computing work like a balance sheet in Excel. Finally anyone who has watched the technology industry for any length of time knows inferior solutions win out if all parties don't agree on the way forward. Or in other words if Apple backs the Magic Trackpad and Microsoft backs the touchscreen then the Mouse will likely stick around because it's the common denominator. At least based on how history has unfolded in the past.