3 ms·

That is if you assume the world is Markov, but in our granularity of thought and limited perception, the only way we can reconcile subsequent observations is th

That is if you assume the world is Markov, but in our granularity of thought and limited perception, the only way we can reconcile subsequent observations is through history. In other words, you can't peer into the universe itself at any individual moment to observe all properties because you have access to partial information, the world could be markov, but the lack of your perceptive abilities requires that you treat it as non markov. For example, given a moving object such as a ball, at any particular instant, you do not have access to enough information to estimate velocity, but if you have access to more frames, you can do some algebra and figure it out. In the vein of cause of actions, since you have limited access to information, especially about you and your brain, you can not decide whether certain events such as having a good day affect your decision making abilities. Your state is part of the environment you do not really have access to it affects your behavior.

GoblinSlayer 6y ago
A choice happens in a short timeframe, Libet measured half a second for the simplest choices. Distant history simply doesn't happen in the right time.
- mcguire 6y ago
  Distant history sets up the thresholds of the neurons as well as their architecture and makeup.
- PartiallyTyped 6y ago
  I disagree. To be precise, I disagree with the notion that our choices are ours, as you said and that they are not dependent on history. A choice is conditioned on a myriad of things, from whether you had your coffee in the morning 8 hours ago and the milk had gone bad, to whether your parents paid attention to you 20 years ago when you were a child. Literally everything matters because experiences shape our brain's structure and that is precisely one of the factors that need to be accounted for in some cases. Not necessarily what one's own brain structure is like, but other people's as well, so as to gauge and expect their reactions to our decisions. If the universe is Markov (which also means hidden variables as a means of predicting quantum processes which iirc was disproven except when said hidden variables were traced all the way to the beginning), then the current frame has enough information to fully describe all future states. However, regardless of whether it is Markov or not, we, humans, need history because it enables us to generalize and approximate the future because we do not have the capacity to peak into the exact state of the universe at any given point. While the process of making decision needs a short amount of time, the decision itself is conditioned on history and we need history to make predictions because we lack compute.
  - UnFleshedOne 6y ago
    "Literally everything matters" -- not necessarily. The world is full of stable attractors that turn any number of small perturbations meaningless. Coffee turning bad might influence you decisions a few hours down the line, but likely not months, being half a degree warmer or colder likely won't influence you at all. Meeting an impressive person as a child might change you greatly, but the other thousands of people you've met in passing likely won't affect you much.

GoblinSlayer 6y ago

A choice happens in a short timeframe, Libet measured half a second for the simplest choices. Distant history simply doesn't happen in the right time.

mcguire 6y ago
Distant history sets up the thresholds of the neurons as well as their architecture and makeup.
PartiallyTyped 6y ago
I disagree. To be precise, I disagree with the notion that our choices are ours, as you said and that they are not dependent on history. A choice is conditioned on a myriad of things, from whether you had your coffee in the morning 8 hours ago and the milk had gone bad, to whether your parents paid attention to you 20 years ago when you were a child. Literally everything matters because experiences shape our brain's structure and that is precisely one of the factors that need to be accounted for in some cases. Not necessarily what one's own brain structure is like, but other people's as well, so as to gauge and expect their reactions to our decisions. If the universe is Markov (which also means hidden variables as a means of predicting quantum processes which iirc was disproven except when said hidden variables were traced all the way to the beginning), then the current frame has enough information to fully describe all future states. However, regardless of whether it is Markov or not, we, humans, need history because it enables us to generalize and approximate the future because we do not have the capacity to peak into the exact state of the universe at any given point. While the process of making decision needs a short amount of time, the decision itself is conditioned on history and we need history to make predictions because we lack compute.
- UnFleshedOne 6y ago
  "Literally everything matters" -- not necessarily. The world is full of stable attractors that turn any number of small perturbations meaningless. Coffee turning bad might influence you decisions a few hours down the line, but likely not months, being half a degree warmer or colder likely won't influence you at all. Meeting an impressive person as a child might change you greatly, but the other thousands of people you've met in passing likely won't affect you much.