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Could we introduce this kind of addiction in healthy things, like excising or healthy diet or anything like that? I've never seen it work in practice, so why a

Could we introduce this kind of addiction in healthy things, like excising or healthy diet or anything like that? I've never seen it work in practice, so why are we not able to do that?

bdefore 6y ago
I'm not an expert in cognitive behavioral therapy, but I believe much of what it advocates is along what you're describing. Reframing behavior you would otherwise avoid or be anxious about as something enjoyable, you might even say addictive. Developing habits that you derive more holistic/health pleasure from.
xpe 6y ago
A good habit of exercise and diet is self-reinforcing. What is the difference between self-reinforcing and habit-forming? I see three differences. 1. Who is in control? A runner is in relatively more control, because the act of running does not require a gamified online experience. 2. What are the ethical ramifications? These are subjective. To be clear, subjective certainly does not mean unimportant. It means people may disagree. In my view, people largely disagree on the "margins" of ethics -- meaning there is a wide swath of common ground. 3. There are some physiological differences; I'm not an expert. It seems that both the runner's high [1] and social media involve dopamine, but they appear to use different mechanisms. ("Runner's high" seems to involve endorphins as a precursor.) [1] https://archives.drugabuse.gov/blog/post/chasing-runners-high https://archives.drugabuse.gov/blog/post/chasing-runners-hig...
theNJR 6y ago
It’s very easy to get the dopamine loop going with sugar, nicotine, memes, rage-bait, and bikini photos. The brain loves it. Chicken breast, deadlifts and philosophy takes a lot of effort and the positive effects are delayed. The brain has to be trained to tolerate it. It will always prefer the latter.
- frompdx 6y ago
  Absolutely. For the last year I have been weightlifting regularly. This isn't my first foray into being serious about lifting either. Every day I lift I have to "make" myself do it. I can't really imagine something that would make it more reinforcing. It's hard every time even if I like the results.
scoutt 6y ago
All addictions are kind of a bad thing... A moderate use of social media is fine. The problem comes with the abuse (product of the addiction). The same abuse can come from "healthy" things which might derive in other problems like image, behavioral and diet disorders. Exercise addiction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_addiction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_addiction
iamatworknow 6y ago
Anecdotal but the gamification of exercise with respect to some of the newer products out there (Peloton, Zwift, Apple Fitness+) seems to be a step in this direction. I've been using Zwift for the past couple of months and have ridden my bike more than I have probably in the previous year combined. Most of it I don't really care/bother with, but when it keeps track of your records and you beat one during an exercise, it does give you a little of that dopamine rush.
superkuh 6y ago
That's the problem. It's not an addiction. And by saying "kind of addiction" or tip-toeing around it we confuse the issue. Addiction is a real thing with a real definition. Providing a service people like is not addiction. Social media is not addictive. Heroin is addictive.

Could we introduce this kind of addiction in healthy things, like excising or healthy diet or anything like that? I've never seen it work in practice, so why are we not able to do that?

bdefore 6y ago

I'm not an expert in cognitive behavioral therapy, but I believe much of what it advocates is along what you're describing. Reframing behavior you would otherwise avoid or be anxious about as something enjoyable, you might even say addictive. Developing habits that you derive more holistic/health pleasure from.

xpe 6y ago

A good habit of exercise and diet is self-reinforcing. What is the difference between self-reinforcing and habit-forming? I see three differences. 1. Who is in control? A runner is in relatively more control, because the act of running does not require a gamified online experience. 2. What are the ethical ramifications? These are subjective. To be clear, subjective certainly does not mean unimportant. It means people may disagree. In my view, people largely disagree on the "margins" of ethics -- meaning there is a wide swath of common ground. 3. There are some physiological differences; I'm not an expert. It seems that both the runner's high [1] and social media involve dopamine, but they appear to use different mechanisms. ("Runner's high" seems to involve endorphins as a precursor.) [1] https://archives.drugabuse.gov/blog/post/chasing-runners-high https://archives.drugabuse.gov/blog/post/chasing-runners-hig...

theNJR 6y ago

It’s very easy to get the dopamine loop going with sugar, nicotine, memes, rage-bait, and bikini photos. The brain loves it. Chicken breast, deadlifts and philosophy takes a lot of effort and the positive effects are delayed. The brain has to be trained to tolerate it. It will always prefer the latter.

frompdx 6y ago
Absolutely. For the last year I have been weightlifting regularly. This isn't my first foray into being serious about lifting either. Every day I lift I have to "make" myself do it. I can't really imagine something that would make it more reinforcing. It's hard every time even if I like the results.

scoutt 6y ago

All addictions are kind of a bad thing... A moderate use of social media is fine. The problem comes with the abuse (product of the addiction). The same abuse can come from "healthy" things which might derive in other problems like image, behavioral and diet disorders. Exercise addiction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_addiction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_addiction

iamatworknow 6y ago

Anecdotal but the gamification of exercise with respect to some of the newer products out there (Peloton, Zwift, Apple Fitness+) seems to be a step in this direction. I've been using Zwift for the past couple of months and have ridden my bike more than I have probably in the previous year combined. Most of it I don't really care/bother with, but when it keeps track of your records and you beat one during an exercise, it does give you a little of that dopamine rush.

superkuh 6y ago

That's the problem. It's not an addiction. And by saying "kind of addiction" or tip-toeing around it we confuse the issue. Addiction is a real thing with a real definition. Providing a service people like is not addiction. Social media is not addictive. Heroin is addictive.