4 ms·

I agree with your claims about the potential advantages of a TUI, but in this case, almost all of these TUIs using Rich will be running as GUI graphics inside a

by SiVal 6y ago

I agree with your claims about the potential advantages of a TUI, but in this case, almost all of these TUIs using Rich will be running as GUI graphics inside a GUI window on top of a GUI OS subsystem, driven by an interpreted Python subsystem, all on an OS juggling many other simultaneous deep-stack processes. In other words, it's a keyboard-driven GUI app making use of the GUI advantages to provide you with your choice of high-quality fonts and designer colors to emulate a TUI. That doesn't make it bad. I still like it. But like you, I wish we had more options to fully exercise the power of a TUI much closer to the metal, like the old days. Apps where almost every keystroke completes an operation faster than the fastest typist can move from key to key.... Of course, beyond a certain speed, more speed wouldn't matter, so maybe I could get it by installing a (local, not remote) desktop Linux without any GUI and using only CLI dev tools. Is anyone doing this?

iib 6y ago
On Ubuntu, sometimes I like to do Ctrl-Alt-F3 to get into a tty, login, and then do `sudo init 3` to shutdown everything pertaining to the graphical shell. The interaction with the computer is much faster there. After I get bored, I do either `sudo init 7` to be sure, but mostly just Ctrl-Alt-F1, which brings me back to my graphical shell. This method has the advantage that you are always on the same system, not needing anything else. Oh, also the music works, if you don't kill the GUI with the first `init` call. Coupled with tmux, emacs/vim, nvlc, lynx, and coreutils, you can really be more productive there, from the extra speed, less memory requirements, and less available distractions. EDIT: I could not find the actual link to the library either on HN or in the OP, so I am linking it here [1], for the convenience of myself and others. [1] https://github.com/willmcgugan/rich https://github.com/willmcgugan/rich
- teddyh 6y ago
  > sudo init 3` to shutdown everything pertaining to the graphical shell The modern systemd equivalent is: systemctl isolate multi-user > sudo init 7 […] which brings me back to my graphical shell. systemctl isolate graphical or systemctl isolate default
  - naikrovek 6y ago
    Can anyone explain why systemd exists besides just saying "Leonart"? The way people just replace things instead of addressing the issues in the old things bothers me. init.d wasn't multithreaded. Ok, so give it threads. Etc.
    - teddyh 6y ago
      Lennart explains it quite well in his initial blog post project announcement: http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/systemd http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/systemd
- Anthony-G 6y ago
  I do something similar with a similar toolset – except that I use mutt for email, don’t use it for music and I’ve been experimenting with other browsers such as w3m and (e)links. I do this mostly for the distraction-free experience. My workstation defaults to booting into the equivalent of run-level 3 (no display manager) and when I get tired of being in text mode, I just run `startx` for the graphical interface.
  - ta988 6y ago
    I have wayland (sway) when logging in on tty1, a terminal in the others to achieve something like that without having to use a DM.
- jakearmitage 6y ago
  I wish I could do that, but I depend on JIRA + Slack + GitLab (code reviews) to do my work and they force me to use Firefox/Chrome. :(
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  If you run fbterm on the console, you can get much improved unicode and color support.
unwind 6y ago
Regarding text UIs close to the metal, that made me think of this short (1 minute 20 seconds) segment in a recent video by The 8-Bit Guy on YouTube [1]. In it, Mr Murray live-codes a simple program to display all 256 characters in the C64's character set, by directly poking them into video memory (that's close to the metal, right?). Once in BASIC, and once in machine code, to show the contrast in speed. It's pretty impressive even now, and that's running on a 1-MHz 8-bit processor. :) [1]: https://youtu.be/HWpi9n2H3kE?t=521 https://youtu.be/HWpi9n2H3kE?t=521
naikrovek 6y ago
I'm not opposed to TUIs managed in resizable windows on a graphical desktop. I just feel that most programs would be better suited to actual use if they were textual. Restraint fosters creativity and efficiency. As an application developer, you'd certainly be much more in tune with how well your application is performing if you could feel a dip in performance the way I remember feeling it when a TUI wasn't responding quite as quickly as it was a few seconds earlier. Giving users insight into your application's performance is a good thing, because I think we put out and put up with unreasonably slow software far too often these days.

by SiVal 6y ago

iib 6y ago

On Ubuntu, sometimes I like to do Ctrl-Alt-F3 to get into a tty, login, and then do `sudo init 3` to shutdown everything pertaining to the graphical shell. The interaction with the computer is much faster there. After I get bored, I do either `sudo init 7` to be sure, but mostly just Ctrl-Alt-F1, which brings me back to my graphical shell. This method has the advantage that you are always on the same system, not needing anything else. Oh, also the music works, if you don't kill the GUI with the first `init` call. Coupled with tmux, emacs/vim, nvlc, lynx, and coreutils, you can really be more productive there, from the extra speed, less memory requirements, and less available distractions. EDIT: I could not find the actual link to the library either on HN or in the OP, so I am linking it here [1], for the convenience of myself and others. [1] https://github.com/willmcgugan/rich https://github.com/willmcgugan/rich

teddyh 6y ago
> sudo init 3` to shutdown everything pertaining to the graphical shell The modern systemd equivalent is: systemctl isolate multi-user > sudo init 7 […] which brings me back to my graphical shell. systemctl isolate graphical or systemctl isolate default
- naikrovek 6y ago
  Can anyone explain why systemd exists besides just saying "Leonart"? The way people just replace things instead of addressing the issues in the old things bothers me. init.d wasn't multithreaded. Ok, so give it threads. Etc.
  - teddyh 6y ago
    Lennart explains it quite well in his initial blog post project announcement: http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/systemd http://0pointer.net/blog/projects/systemd
Anthony-G 6y ago
I do something similar with a similar toolset – except that I use mutt for email, don’t use it for music and I’ve been experimenting with other browsers such as w3m and (e)links. I do this mostly for the distraction-free experience. My workstation defaults to booting into the equivalent of run-level 3 (no display manager) and when I get tired of being in text mode, I just run `startx` for the graphical interface.
- ta988 6y ago
  I have wayland (sway) when logging in on tty1, a terminal in the others to achieve something like that without having to use a DM.
jakearmitage 6y ago
I wish I could do that, but I depend on JIRA + Slack + GitLab (code reviews) to do my work and they force me to use Firefox/Chrome. :(
mixmastamyk 6y ago
If you run fbterm on the console, you can get much improved unicode and color support.

unwind 6y ago

Regarding text UIs close to the metal, that made me think of this short (1 minute 20 seconds) segment in a recent video by The 8-Bit Guy on YouTube [1]. In it, Mr Murray live-codes a simple program to display all 256 characters in the C64's character set, by directly poking them into video memory (that's close to the metal, right?). Once in BASIC, and once in machine code, to show the contrast in speed. It's pretty impressive even now, and that's running on a 1-MHz 8-bit processor. :) [1]: https://youtu.be/HWpi9n2H3kE?t=521 https://youtu.be/HWpi9n2H3kE?t=521

naikrovek 6y ago

I'm not opposed to TUIs managed in resizable windows on a graphical desktop. I just feel that most programs would be better suited to actual use if they were textual. Restraint fosters creativity and efficiency. As an application developer, you'd certainly be much more in tune with how well your application is performing if you could feel a dip in performance the way I remember feeling it when a TUI wasn't responding quite as quickly as it was a few seconds earlier. Giving users insight into your application's performance is a good thing, because I think we put out and put up with unreasonably slow software far too often these days.