5 ms·

Or for that matter, what existence do you imagine "you" have apart from your body? Even the distinction between brain and body is artificial. Your brain isn't

by smeej 6y ago

Or for that matter, what existence do you imagine "you" have apart from your body? Even the distinction between brain and body is artificial. Your brain isn't "you" in some special way that the rest of your body isn't. The whole unity is "you."

taneq 6y ago
Yeah, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out, some day in the far future when we actually understand the human body properly, that we're doing all sorts of interesting processing in the peripheral nervous system and even chemically outside of nerve cells.
- ta988 6y ago
  We already have hormones and signaling coming from other organs, and those react to other hormones and signaling, so thats possible. I ahve the feeling focus has been put on fast communication of states (potential in the synapses, neurotransmitters) but we know also about slower processes (astrocytes energy management) that also impact brain function deeply, so I would clearly not rule peripheral impact out.
coldtea 6y ago
>Your brain isn't "you" in some special way that the rest of your body isn't. Well, in some way it is, in that they can cut your hands and feet, and you'll still be you. And perhaps if they could just put your head/brain in a jar, and you were still coscious, you'd still consider yourself you...
- pessimizer 6y ago
  Or if they slice your brain down the middle in put it in two different jars, would they both think of themselves as you? Then, if you keep carefully cutting small bits off of those hemispheres, when would they stop being you?
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >would they both think of themselves as you? If they both continue to think, yes. >Then, if you keep carefully cutting small bits off of those hemispheres, when would they stop being you? When they lose consciousness?
    - ta988 6y ago
      If consciousness is a continous property (which is what I believe it is) and not a discrete one, a precise answer would be difficult. The same way you can loose some visual ability but not all.
  - taneq 6y ago
    Or to use the usual philosophical questions, what is it like to be: - A human brain in a human body - A human brain not in a human body - Half a human brain - Some smaller portion of a human brain I don't think "is me" / "isn't me" is a clean dichotomy. As you lose parts of your brain you're still somewhat you but you're less you than you were.
- smeej 6y ago
  Without any of your senses intact, what would your consciousness even mean? You couldn't even sub-vocalize your thoughts. I don't think the experience would be anything like what you're used to as "consciousness." The brain still might fire its synapses, but I don't see any reason to believe "consciousness" can exist in a brain removed from a body.
- croon 6y ago
  If my brain was in a jar, but all my sensory perception linked to a robot body on the other face of the planet (without my brain knowing), I would probably consider that robot body me.
  - RHSeeger 6y ago
    And if someone managed to build a model of the human brain and "uploaded" your brain into it such that it acted identically to your biological brain, would you also consider that "you"? Are there two of "you" now? Note: I'm not disagreeing with you, just kind of following the road your comment lays out.
    - mcguire 6y ago
      Don't put too much emphasis on "you" there...the two will diverge quickly. :-)
    - croon 6y ago
      Short answer: yes, as long as I'm unaware I'm an upload. I was mostly trying to make the point how much of our existence is rooted in our senses. Even though we can meditate/daydream/dream/etc, most of it processes experiences already had. I have no idea how a brain without any I/O would contemplate its existence, but I don't think our current psychological models apply.
pessimizer 6y ago
That reasoning goes farther: What existence do you imagine you have apart from your car, apart from your neighborhood, apart from East Timor or Jupiter? The whole unity is "you."
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  I sometimes notice how much my environment is a part of my personality. I get to a different environment and some of my habits change, simply because the objects I used for my old habits are no longer there.
red75prime 6y ago
> The whole unity is "you." Why don't you aware of each and every neuronal spike, movement of neurotransmitters and so on?

by smeej 6y ago

taneq 6y ago

Yeah, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out, some day in the far future when we actually understand the human body properly, that we're doing all sorts of interesting processing in the peripheral nervous system and even chemically outside of nerve cells.

ta988 6y ago
We already have hormones and signaling coming from other organs, and those react to other hormones and signaling, so thats possible. I ahve the feeling focus has been put on fast communication of states (potential in the synapses, neurotransmitters) but we know also about slower processes (astrocytes energy management) that also impact brain function deeply, so I would clearly not rule peripheral impact out.

coldtea 6y ago

>Your brain isn't "you" in some special way that the rest of your body isn't. Well, in some way it is, in that they can cut your hands and feet, and you'll still be you. And perhaps if they could just put your head/brain in a jar, and you were still coscious, you'd still consider yourself you...

pessimizer 6y ago
Or if they slice your brain down the middle in put it in two different jars, would they both think of themselves as you? Then, if you keep carefully cutting small bits off of those hemispheres, when would they stop being you?
- coldtea 6y ago
  >would they both think of themselves as you? If they both continue to think, yes. >Then, if you keep carefully cutting small bits off of those hemispheres, when would they stop being you? When they lose consciousness?
  - ta988 6y ago
    If consciousness is a continous property (which is what I believe it is) and not a discrete one, a precise answer would be difficult. The same way you can loose some visual ability but not all.
- taneq 6y ago
  Or to use the usual philosophical questions, what is it like to be: - A human brain in a human body - A human brain not in a human body - Half a human brain - Some smaller portion of a human brain I don't think "is me" / "isn't me" is a clean dichotomy. As you lose parts of your brain you're still somewhat you but you're less you than you were.
smeej 6y ago
Without any of your senses intact, what would your consciousness even mean? You couldn't even sub-vocalize your thoughts. I don't think the experience would be anything like what you're used to as "consciousness." The brain still might fire its synapses, but I don't see any reason to believe "consciousness" can exist in a brain removed from a body.
croon 6y ago
If my brain was in a jar, but all my sensory perception linked to a robot body on the other face of the planet (without my brain knowing), I would probably consider that robot body me.
- RHSeeger 6y ago
  And if someone managed to build a model of the human brain and "uploaded" your brain into it such that it acted identically to your biological brain, would you also consider that "you"? Are there two of "you" now? Note: I'm not disagreeing with you, just kind of following the road your comment lays out.
  - mcguire 6y ago
    Don't put too much emphasis on "you" there...the two will diverge quickly. :-)
  - croon 6y ago
    Short answer: yes, as long as I'm unaware I'm an upload. I was mostly trying to make the point how much of our existence is rooted in our senses. Even though we can meditate/daydream/dream/etc, most of it processes experiences already had. I have no idea how a brain without any I/O would contemplate its existence, but I don't think our current psychological models apply.

pessimizer 6y ago

That reasoning goes farther: What existence do you imagine you have apart from your car, apart from your neighborhood, apart from East Timor or Jupiter? The whole unity is "you."

Viliam1234 6y ago
I sometimes notice how much my environment is a part of my personality. I get to a different environment and some of my habits change, simply because the objects I used for my old habits are no longer there.

red75prime 6y ago

> The whole unity is "you." Why don't you aware of each and every neuronal spike, movement of neurotransmitters and so on?