7 ms·

Mac OS is like if linux had a trillion dollar company developing it and an actual integrated ecosystem though You are missing out big time, coming from someone

by pid_0 6y ago

Mac OS is like if linux had a trillion dollar company developing it and an actual integrated ecosystem though You are missing out big time, coming from someone who was staunchly anti-Apple for years

new_realist 6y ago
This. When it comes to desktops, macOS is a national railroad, Linux is a model railroad in someone's basement.
- emptyparadise 6y ago
  >macOS is a national railroad It's too bad that it's Amtrak and not Japan Railways.
- wayneftw 6y ago
  Desktops are not railroads, Internet servers are. Considering that the overwhelming majority of Internet servers are running Linux and practically none of them are running macOS, I find this analogy to be hilariously wrong. Even among developers, only ~25% of them run a Mac. Linux has that many developers and the rest is Windows.
  - vineyardmike 6y ago
    >> When it comes to desktops... > Considering that the overwhelming majority of Internet servers... But what about desktops?
    - wayneftw 6y ago
      I noted that here: > Even among developers, only ~25% of them run a Mac. Linux has that many developers and the rest is Windows. It's less than 25% among general users...
koolba 6y ago
Does it still come with a 20 year version of bash by default?
- eric-hu 6y ago
  Something like that, but they changed the default shell to zsh, which is newer.
  - bombcar 6y ago
    I thank Apple for going to zsh- forcing me to begin learning it and now I have it on all my mzchiesn.
    - Toutouxc 6y ago
      I find your misspelling of "machines" charming.
      - bombcar 6y ago
        I am continually boggled by what my iPhone corrects and doesn’t correct.
- _-___________-_ 6y ago
  sudo port install bash && echo /usr/local/bin/bash | sudo tee -a /etc/shells && chsh -s /usr/local/bin/bash
  - asguy 6y ago
    ... and then you run a script that depends on `/bin/bash` .. but uses a feature (e.g. coproc, associative arrays) from a version less than a decade old. And then you go and update your PATH and shebang lines to call out `/usr/bin/env bash` and hope things go right.
- anuragsoni 6y ago
  Starting with macOS Catalina zsh is the default [1] shell. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208050 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208050
asguy 6y ago
Horses for courses. I’ve been staunchly pro Apple since my //e and I’ve recently gotten off of OS X completely. Most of my usage is dependent on developing server/SaaS tooling, and Apple’s dev support is so behind, that it’s made it less hassle to just run Debian on my desk.
nulld3v 6y ago
As someone who is forced by my employer to use MacOS, I cannot agree with this statement. MacOS for me is a massive pain to use compared to Linux.
- mbreese 6y ago
  Genuinely curious — what are your specific gripes? I switched to Macs (many) years ago after being frustrated with Linux on the desktop. I’ve been quite happy over the years, but I also realize that I tend to spend most of my development time connected to a Linux VM or server. So, I’m curious as to what your pain points are.
  - nulld3v 6y ago
    - I work in multiple OSes simultaneously and MacOS makes this a huge pain as it has substantially different keyboard shortcuts compared to Windows/Linux. You can kinda change this in the System Preferences but it isn't perfect. - Depending on your distro, installing and updating software on Linux can be much easier compared to MacOS. - MacOS updates tend to break things - Automating things on Linux is easy as I have the CLI. Automating things on Windows is kind-of easy as I have AutoHotkey. Automating things on MacOS is hard because there simply isn't a comparable all-in-one tool. - Docker on MacOS is pain. - Virtual machines on MacOS is pain. - Advanced networking on MacOS is pain (when I need complicated VPN setups or just to connect all my VMs together). I know many of my pain points don't apply to lots of people because my desktop setup is pretty complicated but my main pain point is still keyboard shortcuts. MacOS keyboard shortcuts are just completely different from any other OS and MacOS makes customizing them difficult without 3rd party tools. I would understand how MacOS may be easier to use if you work with a lot of audio or just use it for web/office stuff though.
    - sooheon 6y ago
      > it has substantially different keyboard shortcuts compared to Windows/Linux Not just different, substantially better, in my opinion. The addition of the command key is a 2x+ increase in modifier-space (2C1 + 2C2 vs. 3C1 + 3C2 + 3C3). > Automating things on Linux is easy as I have the CLI. Automating things on Windows is kind-of easy as I have AutoHotkey. Automating things on MacOS is hard because there simply isn't a comparable all-in-one tool. Mac has Keyboard Maestro, AppleScript, and a terminal.
perryizgr8 6y ago
I don't know about that. My employer gives out Macbooks to us devs and there's no option but to use OS X. I must say that the OS is as bad as the hardware is good. This is definitely the best laptop hardware I've used, and unfortunately the most unstable, frustrating and bug-ridden OS I've used this side of Windows Vista. Can you imagine that an OS update disabled the fingerprinter and also broke authenticated settings? And this is a common occurrence apparently.
- captainredbeard 6y ago
  You are making up terms for macOS. What do you mean by fingerprinter? Do you mean Gatekeeper / codesigning verification for the first time launch of an app?
  - sgerenser 6y ago
    Presumably the fingerprint reader on the MacBook Pro/Air
  - perryizgr8 6y ago
    > What do you mean by fingerprinter? There is a button on the top right that doubles as a fingerprint sensor. It stopped working after an OS upgrade.
flohofwoe 6y ago
For an OS that has a trillion dollar company and an actual integrated ecosystem behind it, macOS should offer a much better experience compared to regular desktop Linux though and not just be slightly better in some aspects and slightly worse in many others. About the only objectively good thing that can be said about Macs running macOS is that the touchpad experience is quite nice ;)
stelcodes 6y ago
Except for the fact that you don’t actually own your device, Apple does :)
- pid_0 6y ago
  I very much own all of my devices and Apple keeps them updated for 5+ years unlike every other OEM, particularly android OEMs who will barely deliver two major android versions if you are especially lucky.

by pid_0 6y ago

Mac OS is like if linux had a trillion dollar company developing it and an actual integrated ecosystem though You are missing out big time, coming from someone who was staunchly anti-Apple for years

new_realist 6y ago

This. When it comes to desktops, macOS is a national railroad, Linux is a model railroad in someone's basement.

emptyparadise 6y ago
>macOS is a national railroad It's too bad that it's Amtrak and not Japan Railways.
wayneftw 6y ago
Desktops are not railroads, Internet servers are. Considering that the overwhelming majority of Internet servers are running Linux and practically none of them are running macOS, I find this analogy to be hilariously wrong. Even among developers, only ~25% of them run a Mac. Linux has that many developers and the rest is Windows.
- vineyardmike 6y ago
  >> When it comes to desktops... > Considering that the overwhelming majority of Internet servers... But what about desktops?
  - wayneftw 6y ago
    I noted that here: > Even among developers, only ~25% of them run a Mac. Linux has that many developers and the rest is Windows. It's less than 25% among general users...

koolba 6y ago

Does it still come with a 20 year version of bash by default?

eric-hu 6y ago
Something like that, but they changed the default shell to zsh, which is newer.
- bombcar 6y ago
  I thank Apple for going to zsh- forcing me to begin learning it and now I have it on all my mzchiesn.
  - Toutouxc 6y ago
    I find your misspelling of "machines" charming.
    - bombcar 6y ago
      I am continually boggled by what my iPhone corrects and doesn’t correct.
_-___________-_ 6y ago
sudo port install bash && echo /usr/local/bin/bash | sudo tee -a /etc/shells && chsh -s /usr/local/bin/bash
- asguy 6y ago
  ... and then you run a script that depends on `/bin/bash` .. but uses a feature (e.g. coproc, associative arrays) from a version less than a decade old. And then you go and update your PATH and shebang lines to call out `/usr/bin/env bash` and hope things go right.
anuragsoni 6y ago
Starting with macOS Catalina zsh is the default [1] shell. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208050 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208050

asguy 6y ago

Horses for courses. I’ve been staunchly pro Apple since my //e and I’ve recently gotten off of OS X completely. Most of my usage is dependent on developing server/SaaS tooling, and Apple’s dev support is so behind, that it’s made it less hassle to just run Debian on my desk.

nulld3v 6y ago

As someone who is forced by my employer to use MacOS, I cannot agree with this statement. MacOS for me is a massive pain to use compared to Linux.

mbreese 6y ago
Genuinely curious — what are your specific gripes? I switched to Macs (many) years ago after being frustrated with Linux on the desktop. I’ve been quite happy over the years, but I also realize that I tend to spend most of my development time connected to a Linux VM or server. So, I’m curious as to what your pain points are.
- nulld3v 6y ago
  - I work in multiple OSes simultaneously and MacOS makes this a huge pain as it has substantially different keyboard shortcuts compared to Windows/Linux. You can kinda change this in the System Preferences but it isn't perfect. - Depending on your distro, installing and updating software on Linux can be much easier compared to MacOS. - MacOS updates tend to break things - Automating things on Linux is easy as I have the CLI. Automating things on Windows is kind-of easy as I have AutoHotkey. Automating things on MacOS is hard because there simply isn't a comparable all-in-one tool. - Docker on MacOS is pain. - Virtual machines on MacOS is pain. - Advanced networking on MacOS is pain (when I need complicated VPN setups or just to connect all my VMs together). I know many of my pain points don't apply to lots of people because my desktop setup is pretty complicated but my main pain point is still keyboard shortcuts. MacOS keyboard shortcuts are just completely different from any other OS and MacOS makes customizing them difficult without 3rd party tools. I would understand how MacOS may be easier to use if you work with a lot of audio or just use it for web/office stuff though.
  - sooheon 6y ago
    > it has substantially different keyboard shortcuts compared to Windows/Linux Not just different, substantially better, in my opinion. The addition of the command key is a 2x+ increase in modifier-space (2C1 + 2C2 vs. 3C1 + 3C2 + 3C3). > Automating things on Linux is easy as I have the CLI. Automating things on Windows is kind-of easy as I have AutoHotkey. Automating things on MacOS is hard because there simply isn't a comparable all-in-one tool. Mac has Keyboard Maestro, AppleScript, and a terminal.

perryizgr8 6y ago

I don't know about that. My employer gives out Macbooks to us devs and there's no option but to use OS X. I must say that the OS is as bad as the hardware is good. This is definitely the best laptop hardware I've used, and unfortunately the most unstable, frustrating and bug-ridden OS I've used this side of Windows Vista. Can you imagine that an OS update disabled the fingerprinter and also broke authenticated settings? And this is a common occurrence apparently.

captainredbeard 6y ago
You are making up terms for macOS. What do you mean by fingerprinter? Do you mean Gatekeeper / codesigning verification for the first time launch of an app?
- sgerenser 6y ago
  Presumably the fingerprint reader on the MacBook Pro/Air
- perryizgr8 6y ago
  > What do you mean by fingerprinter? There is a button on the top right that doubles as a fingerprint sensor. It stopped working after an OS upgrade.

flohofwoe 6y ago

For an OS that has a trillion dollar company and an actual integrated ecosystem behind it, macOS should offer a much better experience compared to regular desktop Linux though and not just be slightly better in some aspects and slightly worse in many others. About the only objectively good thing that can be said about Macs running macOS is that the touchpad experience is quite nice ;)

stelcodes 6y ago

Except for the fact that you don’t actually own your device, Apple does :)

pid_0 6y ago
I very much own all of my devices and Apple keeps them updated for 5+ years unlike every other OEM, particularly android OEMs who will barely deliver two major android versions if you are especially lucky.