7 ms·

Is there a roadmap for CUDA support? (downvoted for asking a honest question. Ahhh the things you see on Apple related posts... Emotion driven bunch)

by hu3 6y ago

coayer 6y ago
CUDA is proprietary and exclusive to Nvidia, so probably not! (Apple and Nvidia haven’t been cooperative for some time)
- whywhywhywhy 6y ago
  It's even more absurd because Apple discontinued OpenCL and replaced it with their own proprietary solution too.
jefft255 6y ago
Officially I don't see that coming, I think it's iffy in terms of patents etc...
cnasc 6y ago
CUDA is Nvidia exclusive, no? I don’t think support for third party graphics hardware will be forthcoming
- russli1993 6y ago
  cuda is designed by nvidia, to lock software and applications to use Nvidia's hardware. Cuda is the core of Nvidia's business model. Cuda is the reason why Nvidia has the guts to charge $5000 for a data center or Quadro card when that card uses nearly the same silicon as the consumer versions and customers will still have to buy their cards. Its like Apple sell you the iPhone, but also the iOS APIs and application model so you can run iOS apps. Once you run iOS apps, you are in Apple's ecosystem, both the ISVs and the user are hard to leave. Its like saying when will Apple officially make iOS APIs and libraries run on Android phones. Both will never happen.
sorenjan 6y ago
A better question would be when will serious ML researchers stop using proprietary frameworks? The open source projects should work towards using something more open than Cuda, probably Vulkan. It's a real shame that Nvidia has a whole industry in their grip, and nobody seems to mind.
- russli1993 6y ago
  cuda is basically equivalent to the combination of the instruction set and the C/C++ language, API and standard library, and all bundled together. In the CPU's case, C/C++, API and standard library are designed to be hardware platform agnostic, instruction sets is separate and open, and x86 have two players. Cuda became this way because it is designed by the hardware company and its business need. We really should be thankful that C/C++, open compilers, API and library exists in the CPU world back then. And hardware vendors like Intel published raw instruction sets and allow any software to target the instruction sets. I can't imagine in a world where people uses the programming language and libraries designed by a hardware CPU company and all that software only runs on hardware from such company.
  - sorenjan 6y ago
    Some things were better back in the day. E-mail could not be invented today, it would be a mix of incompatible mail system like Facebook mail, Google mail, Apple mail, Slack mail, some distributed open source mail nobody used, etc.
    - meepmorp 6y ago
      Go read the SMTP and related RFCs and see if you still think that email back in the day wasn’t already a mix of incompatible systems. The parts about address formats alone was quite an eye opener for me.
      - brian_cunnie 6y ago
        Yes, I remember IBM had its own email system back in the early 80's when I worked there, AT&T had its own in the later 80's. Even Prodigy/Compuserve/AOL had proprietary email systems (IIRC) with internet email bolted on. And getting email to the internet at large was no mean feat: I remember having to do a slew of UUCP addressing to get an email from AT&T to the internet (something along the lines of "astevens@redhill3!ihnp4@mit.edu). It was the wild west.
eyelidlessness 6y ago
Hey don't jump to conclusions, downvotes all around here! (I upvoted your perfectly reasonable and honest question)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
make3 6y ago
Aside from the fact that CUDA is proprietary & very obviously made to lock people into using NVidia products, the thing is also that it's not just about CUDA. Indeed, deep learning primitives use CUDNN which have professionally written code hand tuned by PhDs in internal only assembly, getting performance not available to the public even if you did end up getting a CUDA compiler somehow.

Is there a roadmap for CUDA support? (downvoted for asking a honest question. Ahhh the things you see on Apple related posts... Emotion driven bunch)

by hu3 6y ago

Is there a roadmap for CUDA support? (downvoted for asking a honest question. Ahhh the things you see on Apple related posts... Emotion driven bunch)

coayer 6y ago

CUDA is proprietary and exclusive to Nvidia, so probably not! (Apple and Nvidia haven’t been cooperative for some time)

whywhywhywhy 6y ago
It's even more absurd because Apple discontinued OpenCL and replaced it with their own proprietary solution too.

jefft255 6y ago

Officially I don't see that coming, I think it's iffy in terms of patents etc...

cnasc 6y ago

CUDA is Nvidia exclusive, no? I don’t think support for third party graphics hardware will be forthcoming

russli1993 6y ago
cuda is designed by nvidia, to lock software and applications to use Nvidia's hardware. Cuda is the core of Nvidia's business model. Cuda is the reason why Nvidia has the guts to charge $5000 for a data center or Quadro card when that card uses nearly the same silicon as the consumer versions and customers will still have to buy their cards. Its like Apple sell you the iPhone, but also the iOS APIs and application model so you can run iOS apps. Once you run iOS apps, you are in Apple's ecosystem, both the ISVs and the user are hard to leave. Its like saying when will Apple officially make iOS APIs and libraries run on Android phones. Both will never happen.

sorenjan 6y ago

A better question would be when will serious ML researchers stop using proprietary frameworks? The open source projects should work towards using something more open than Cuda, probably Vulkan. It's a real shame that Nvidia has a whole industry in their grip, and nobody seems to mind.

russli1993 6y ago
cuda is basically equivalent to the combination of the instruction set and the C/C++ language, API and standard library, and all bundled together. In the CPU's case, C/C++, API and standard library are designed to be hardware platform agnostic, instruction sets is separate and open, and x86 have two players. Cuda became this way because it is designed by the hardware company and its business need. We really should be thankful that C/C++, open compilers, API and library exists in the CPU world back then. And hardware vendors like Intel published raw instruction sets and allow any software to target the instruction sets. I can't imagine in a world where people uses the programming language and libraries designed by a hardware CPU company and all that software only runs on hardware from such company.
- sorenjan 6y ago
  Some things were better back in the day. E-mail could not be invented today, it would be a mix of incompatible mail system like Facebook mail, Google mail, Apple mail, Slack mail, some distributed open source mail nobody used, etc.
  - meepmorp 6y ago
    Go read the SMTP and related RFCs and see if you still think that email back in the day wasn’t already a mix of incompatible systems. The parts about address formats alone was quite an eye opener for me.
    - brian_cunnie 6y ago
      Yes, I remember IBM had its own email system back in the early 80's when I worked there, AT&T had its own in the later 80's. Even Prodigy/Compuserve/AOL had proprietary email systems (IIRC) with internet email bolted on. And getting email to the internet at large was no mean feat: I remember having to do a slew of UUCP addressing to get an email from AT&T to the internet (something along the lines of "astevens@redhill3!ihnp4@mit.edu). It was the wild west.

eyelidlessness 6y ago

Hey don't jump to conclusions, downvotes all around here! (I upvoted your perfectly reasonable and honest question)

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

make3 6y ago

Aside from the fact that CUDA is proprietary & very obviously made to lock people into using NVidia products, the thing is also that it's not just about CUDA. Indeed, deep learning primitives use CUDNN which have professionally written code hand tuned by PhDs in internal only assembly, getting performance not available to the public even if you did end up getting a CUDA compiler somehow.