4 ms·

I've lived in several US cities over the course of my life, and the only constant is that whoever you talk to, the problems are caused by the people who moved t

I've lived in several US cities over the course of my life, and the only constant is that whoever you talk to, the problems are caused by the people who moved there after them.

ashtonkem 6y ago
I’d say that another constant is the belief that living in a place for a certain period of time confers a sense of ownership over a city, along with the right to decide who should and should not live there. You obviously see that in states where Californians are moving, but you even see that in California against those who moved there recently for a job. Frankly I find it completely bizarre.
- gwright 6y ago
  Without taking an opinion on whether that "sense of ownership" is right or wrong, I would say that the response to gentrification is another example of the phenomena you are describing.
- zippergz 6y ago
  I know this is kind of the opposite of the (mostly joking) point I made that you replied to. But the thing I find bizarre is that people can't understand why other people oppose change in the place they live in. Most people choose places to live because they like those places. I think it's safe to say that the things they like extend beyond the four walls of the residence they buy or rent. They might like the walkability, or the views, or the diversity of the neighborhood, or the proximity to friends and family. All of these are things that are subject to change over time, and are more likely to change as the demographics of the town do. The shops you liked to walk to get priced out and replaced with Starbucks and Lululemon. The views get blocked by new buildings. The diversity goes away as people are priced out. The friends and family move because rent went up too much. How can you possibly be surprised that people don't want the things they like about the place they live to change? This doesn't mean they "own" the city, but it does mean it's quite understandable for them to try to do things to prevent the change if they can. I'm not arguing that this is good, or even completely rational in all cases, but it's far from surprising.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    > How can you possibly be surprised that people don't want the things they like about the place they live to change? People can and should obviously get upset (or excited!) about specific changes. What I'm more surprised at is the idea that some people have that any change at all is unacceptable. It's not like the town that one loved sprung up into existence as is, it took change to get the parts that you like in the first place! No one has an affirmative right for their town to remain as-is from their favorite point in time, as that's just not how life works. I'm specifically thinking of my time in Santa Monica, with the residents thinking that they should be able to keep their small town vibe despite living close to one of the largest metropolitan areas in the United States. It struck me as neigh upon delusional to think that one can live near a major city and demand that the city halt expansion wherever it might be convenient to you. That's just not how humanity has ever worked, ever. Cities expand, live too close to them at your own peril.
    - aeternum 6y ago
      Assuming that people are against any change at all seems like quite the strawman. Perhaps those people support building some change, perhaps they just want to ensure that public transit, utilities, road infrastructure can handle the added density. Very few people are are against any new growth in cities. We could likely have a more productive discussion if we framed it around the optimal rate of growth of a city.
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        > Very few people are are against any new growth in cities. It seems you’ve never met a NIMBY. “No new people in my city” is actually a pretty surprisingly popular position. Usually these people are super pro growth, as long as that’s somewhere else.
  - Dma54rhs 6y ago
    Because it's quite xenophobic behavior, you say diversity but mean the diversity of people who you happen to like. It's rather easy to be tolerant if only things that you like apply. You can hear exactly the same things racists say about their small towns changing without all these sophisticated meaningless words.
- bedhead 6y ago
  Both of these comments are so viscerally true. I live most of the year in a very small town (as in, no home mail service) that's also a big tourist destination. It has all the usual tension between townies, second home owners, and tourists, but the thing that really shocked me when I moved here was how there is a sort of caste system among locals with a bunch of dimensions like how long you've lived there, if you own a shop in town, if you are on a town council, etc. Living here can be strange. On one hand, some of the people are extraordinarily friendly, while on the other, I've never felt more unwelcome in a place in my entire life.
  - Xcelerate 6y ago
    We moved to Asheville a few months ago and noticed the same phenomenon. Combine low local wages with high incomes of people working remotely or buying a second home and you get a strange dynamic within the town.
- ansdfbgdfsvver 6y ago
  I live in one of those state Californians are moving to, and the hate for them is simply epic. I keep thinking it would be amusing to give out bumper stickers that change in the rain -- with text to the effect of "STAY OUT", or "GO HOME", and a red circle/slash over an image of California. When it rains, the image of California changes to an image of Mexico.
tqi 6y ago
The two most populous states in the US are California and Texas. One demonizes immigrants for moving in and destroying the local culture / way of life. The other, of course, is home to The Alamo.
- JKCalhoun 6y ago
  Lived in California for decades now. I have no idea what you are on about.
  - tqi 6y ago
    It's a joke about how both hate people coming in from out of state
- nostrademons 6y ago
  Still ambiguous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alamo,_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alamo,_California
kamaal 6y ago
Standard with any kind of human movement. Once they are in, people want the door shut right behind them.

I've lived in several US cities over the course of my life, and the only constant is that whoever you talk to, the problems are caused by the people who moved there after them.

ashtonkem 6y ago

I’d say that another constant is the belief that living in a place for a certain period of time confers a sense of ownership over a city, along with the right to decide who should and should not live there. You obviously see that in states where Californians are moving, but you even see that in California against those who moved there recently for a job. Frankly I find it completely bizarre.

gwright 6y ago
Without taking an opinion on whether that "sense of ownership" is right or wrong, I would say that the response to gentrification is another example of the phenomena you are describing.
zippergz 6y ago
I know this is kind of the opposite of the (mostly joking) point I made that you replied to. But the thing I find bizarre is that people can't understand why other people oppose change in the place they live in. Most people choose places to live because they like those places. I think it's safe to say that the things they like extend beyond the four walls of the residence they buy or rent. They might like the walkability, or the views, or the diversity of the neighborhood, or the proximity to friends and family. All of these are things that are subject to change over time, and are more likely to change as the demographics of the town do. The shops you liked to walk to get priced out and replaced with Starbucks and Lululemon. The views get blocked by new buildings. The diversity goes away as people are priced out. The friends and family move because rent went up too much. How can you possibly be surprised that people don't want the things they like about the place they live to change? This doesn't mean they "own" the city, but it does mean it's quite understandable for them to try to do things to prevent the change if they can. I'm not arguing that this is good, or even completely rational in all cases, but it's far from surprising.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  > How can you possibly be surprised that people don't want the things they like about the place they live to change? People can and should obviously get upset (or excited!) about specific changes. What I'm more surprised at is the idea that some people have that any change at all is unacceptable. It's not like the town that one loved sprung up into existence as is, it took change to get the parts that you like in the first place! No one has an affirmative right for their town to remain as-is from their favorite point in time, as that's just not how life works. I'm specifically thinking of my time in Santa Monica, with the residents thinking that they should be able to keep their small town vibe despite living close to one of the largest metropolitan areas in the United States. It struck me as neigh upon delusional to think that one can live near a major city and demand that the city halt expansion wherever it might be convenient to you. That's just not how humanity has ever worked, ever. Cities expand, live too close to them at your own peril.
  - aeternum 6y ago
    Assuming that people are against any change at all seems like quite the strawman. Perhaps those people support building some change, perhaps they just want to ensure that public transit, utilities, road infrastructure can handle the added density. Very few people are are against any new growth in cities. We could likely have a more productive discussion if we framed it around the optimal rate of growth of a city.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      > Very few people are are against any new growth in cities. It seems you’ve never met a NIMBY. “No new people in my city” is actually a pretty surprisingly popular position. Usually these people are super pro growth, as long as that’s somewhere else.
- Dma54rhs 6y ago
  Because it's quite xenophobic behavior, you say diversity but mean the diversity of people who you happen to like. It's rather easy to be tolerant if only things that you like apply. You can hear exactly the same things racists say about their small towns changing without all these sophisticated meaningless words.
bedhead 6y ago
Both of these comments are so viscerally true. I live most of the year in a very small town (as in, no home mail service) that's also a big tourist destination. It has all the usual tension between townies, second home owners, and tourists, but the thing that really shocked me when I moved here was how there is a sort of caste system among locals with a bunch of dimensions like how long you've lived there, if you own a shop in town, if you are on a town council, etc. Living here can be strange. On one hand, some of the people are extraordinarily friendly, while on the other, I've never felt more unwelcome in a place in my entire life.
- Xcelerate 6y ago
  We moved to Asheville a few months ago and noticed the same phenomenon. Combine low local wages with high incomes of people working remotely or buying a second home and you get a strange dynamic within the town.
ansdfbgdfsvver 6y ago
I live in one of those state Californians are moving to, and the hate for them is simply epic. I keep thinking it would be amusing to give out bumper stickers that change in the rain -- with text to the effect of "STAY OUT", or "GO HOME", and a red circle/slash over an image of California. When it rains, the image of California changes to an image of Mexico.

tqi 6y ago

The two most populous states in the US are California and Texas. One demonizes immigrants for moving in and destroying the local culture / way of life. The other, of course, is home to The Alamo.

JKCalhoun 6y ago
Lived in California for decades now. I have no idea what you are on about.
- tqi 6y ago
  It's a joke about how both hate people coming in from out of state
nostrademons 6y ago
Still ambiguous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alamo,_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alamo,_California

kamaal 6y ago

Standard with any kind of human movement. Once they are in, people want the door shut right behind them.