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The only place where Flash works very decent is on Windows with IE. It kind of bogs down on even bigger power desktops and laptops. It absolutely blows on OS X

The only place where Flash works very decent is on Windows with IE. It kind of bogs down on even bigger power desktops and laptops. It absolutely blows on OS X for whatever reason. That said the point of Flash on Android is not to have guaranteed high performance, fluent apps that work like native ones. That's an impossible goal - for one, Adobe cannot control what kind of Flash/AS code all of the developers out on the web will write. And secondly on my Xoom with 3.1 - Flash works great enough - no stutter or crashes. Does the job. So as more decent hardware comes out and they optimize Flash even more it will become better. This whole cult like insanity people have created for and against Flash is mind blowing - it's there you can use it if you want, don't if you don't. No one is forcing anything down your throats folks. For me I will take reasonably working Flash instead of not working at all. Oh and before you beat up the HTML5 drum - it's not there yet and it's not the absolute reality of the web today.

chamakits 15y ago
I think what people take issue with (at least its what I take issue with) is that Adobe is trying to pretend its an open standard of the web, that helps push the web forward when in reality it does the contrary. For starters, its not an open standard, its an executable program (or plugin). It isn't a standard left up to be implemented by whoever is interested, its controlled by the one and only master implementation by Adobe. A lot of websites like to depend on Flash in some way or the other, be it for ads, video, or some functionality, and more often than not it makes the experience unpleasant. On the other hand HTML5 is an open standard and thats all it is. Its basically an agreement of what the technology takes as input, and puts out as output. If you want to implement the technology, by all means, go ahead. If group A implements it better than group B, then people have the choice of using the group A technology. Group B will then have to improve their implementation if they are interested in staying competitive, and we all win. That to me is key, the option of using a standard, implemented by different people to make it strive, not a binary distributed and leaving you up to the whim of the company behind it. FYI: You spoke of windows and Mac OS X, but didn't mention Linux (probably because you haven't tried it, the same way I haven't tried it in Mac OS X.) Flash absolutely blows in Linux as well. I'm not talking just on the gnash and open source flash players, I mean the Adobe closed source build. It stutters, the keyboard input detection is abysmal, it leaks memory all the time, and crashes eventually from all the memory leaks.
- teyc 15y ago
  You are only half right. Flash is not an open standard. Standards are means to an end, which is cross platform applications so I don't have to write the same thing multiple times over. If Flash was done well and it was cross platform, then it wouldn't be a problem for me.
  - lukeschlather 15y ago
    The only thing in the same category as Flash that has a similar reach is Java, and Java is worse. Yes, Flash sucks. But there are certain things for which nothing is better.
    - blinkingled 15y ago
      * Yes, Flash sucks. But there are certain things for which nothing is better. That's a great one line summary I will remember to throw out and get back to work the next time Flash sucks conversation comes up (will be pretty soon I'm sure :)
- potatolicious 15y ago
  Flash is ridiculous on OS X. It leaks memory like a sieve - I once left a few tabs open overnight with Flash ads and your various bits of Flash-based internet detritus, and by the time I woke up my machine was thrashing madly until I manually killed Flash. Its performance is also piss poor even when it isn't leaking your RAM all over the floor. Not to mention it breaks a lot of fundamental browser interactivity - want something to render on top of your Flash applet? FUCK YOU YOU CAN'T. Scrolling happily along with your mousewheel on a page, then you hit a Flash applet. While your cursor is over the applet, your scroll wheel stops working. Why? God knows, because Adobe hates us and Flash is the greatest bit of trolling ever. These aren't new issues - these have been around since the very first days of Flash. Adobe simply has no interest in bringing usability up to the standards of the 21st century. Nor security for that matter - one of my main objections to Flash is that it conveniently circumvents all of the nice security features your browser has painstakingly built into your experience. Incognito mode? Flash won't respect it. Don't like cookies? Well, screw you, Flash will keep its own equivalent anyways. Nice, sandboxed JavaScript runtime? Well, Flash does its own thing (and has its own bugs and security holes... many, many security holes)... I trust Google, Mozilla, et al to do a reasonably good job protecting me online. I do not trust Adobe - both due to their lack of regard for basic product quality (both stability and usability), as well as their poor security track record of having more holes than a beehive. If third parties could actually implement a runtime (one that, say, wouldn't suck) then maybe Flash would be a good idea. At least there would be a way to work around a single vendor's supremely shitty implementation. I don't deny the need and desire for a highly interactive technology like what Flash wants to be (and sometimes is)... but this is not the answer.
themal 15y ago
Even on Windows it's a nuisance. Flash adverts are often so poorly implemented that merely visiting a website will push a laptop's fan to full power. I am not against Flash though, I just wish they would put more effort into making it efficient and reliable on all platforms.
- RyanKearney 15y ago
  Chrome, block all plug-ins by default. You'll never see a flash ad again, but instead a big gray box in it's place. Should you need to activate flash to watch a video on a web page then you can just click the gray box and it will load the plug-in. Works great for me.
- bm98 15y ago
  I'm surprised that there isn't more talk about Flash efficiency and its impact on global energy consumption and the environment. My desktop CPU burns an extra 50 watts when it is pegged at 100% (and in a typical day, Flash is the only thing that pegs my CPU for a prolonged period of time). Multiply that by hundreds of millions of computers running Flash -- many whose owners don't realize their CPUs are at 100% -- and it adds up to potentially millions of extra pounds of CO2 emissions every day.
Terretta 15y ago
> And secondly on my Xoom with 3.1 - Flash works great enough - no stutter or crashes. I have a new Xoom as well, latest everything, including the Flash update from 2 weeks ago. Flash video drops frames, stutters, freezes, and occasionally locks Browser up completely. On the other hand, native HTML 5 video tag plays gloriously.
- blinkingled 15y ago
  Where latest everything == OS version 3.1 and Flash version 10.3? In that case something else may be going on - can't get it to suck enough to bother me on my 3G Xoom.
  - Terretta 15y ago
    Yes and yes, and that's all. Nothing else installed at all. I use it only for testing web video experiences.

chamakits 15y ago

I think what people take issue with (at least its what I take issue with) is that Adobe is trying to pretend its an open standard of the web, that helps push the web forward when in reality it does the contrary. For starters, its not an open standard, its an executable program (or plugin). It isn't a standard left up to be implemented by whoever is interested, its controlled by the one and only master implementation by Adobe. A lot of websites like to depend on Flash in some way or the other, be it for ads, video, or some functionality, and more often than not it makes the experience unpleasant. On the other hand HTML5 is an open standard and thats all it is. Its basically an agreement of what the technology takes as input, and puts out as output. If you want to implement the technology, by all means, go ahead. If group A implements it better than group B, then people have the choice of using the group A technology. Group B will then have to improve their implementation if they are interested in staying competitive, and we all win. That to me is key, the option of using a standard, implemented by different people to make it strive, not a binary distributed and leaving you up to the whim of the company behind it. FYI: You spoke of windows and Mac OS X, but didn't mention Linux (probably because you haven't tried it, the same way I haven't tried it in Mac OS X.) Flash absolutely blows in Linux as well. I'm not talking just on the gnash and open source flash players, I mean the Adobe closed source build. It stutters, the keyboard input detection is abysmal, it leaks memory all the time, and crashes eventually from all the memory leaks.

teyc 15y ago
You are only half right. Flash is not an open standard. Standards are means to an end, which is cross platform applications so I don't have to write the same thing multiple times over. If Flash was done well and it was cross platform, then it wouldn't be a problem for me.
- lukeschlather 15y ago
  The only thing in the same category as Flash that has a similar reach is Java, and Java is worse. Yes, Flash sucks. But there are certain things for which nothing is better.
  - blinkingled 15y ago
    * Yes, Flash sucks. But there are certain things for which nothing is better. That's a great one line summary I will remember to throw out and get back to work the next time Flash sucks conversation comes up (will be pretty soon I'm sure :)
potatolicious 15y ago
Flash is ridiculous on OS X. It leaks memory like a sieve - I once left a few tabs open overnight with Flash ads and your various bits of Flash-based internet detritus, and by the time I woke up my machine was thrashing madly until I manually killed Flash. Its performance is also piss poor even when it isn't leaking your RAM all over the floor. Not to mention it breaks a lot of fundamental browser interactivity - want something to render on top of your Flash applet? FUCK YOU YOU CAN'T. Scrolling happily along with your mousewheel on a page, then you hit a Flash applet. While your cursor is over the applet, your scroll wheel stops working. Why? God knows, because Adobe hates us and Flash is the greatest bit of trolling ever. These aren't new issues - these have been around since the very first days of Flash. Adobe simply has no interest in bringing usability up to the standards of the 21st century. Nor security for that matter - one of my main objections to Flash is that it conveniently circumvents all of the nice security features your browser has painstakingly built into your experience. Incognito mode? Flash won't respect it. Don't like cookies? Well, screw you, Flash will keep its own equivalent anyways. Nice, sandboxed JavaScript runtime? Well, Flash does its own thing (and has its own bugs and security holes... many, many security holes)... I trust Google, Mozilla, et al to do a reasonably good job protecting me online. I do not trust Adobe - both due to their lack of regard for basic product quality (both stability and usability), as well as their poor security track record of having more holes than a beehive. If third parties could actually implement a runtime (one that, say, wouldn't suck) then maybe Flash would be a good idea. At least there would be a way to work around a single vendor's supremely shitty implementation. I don't deny the need and desire for a highly interactive technology like what Flash wants to be (and sometimes is)... but this is not the answer.

themal 15y ago

Even on Windows it's a nuisance. Flash adverts are often so poorly implemented that merely visiting a website will push a laptop's fan to full power. I am not against Flash though, I just wish they would put more effort into making it efficient and reliable on all platforms.

RyanKearney 15y ago
Chrome, block all plug-ins by default. You'll never see a flash ad again, but instead a big gray box in it's place. Should you need to activate flash to watch a video on a web page then you can just click the gray box and it will load the plug-in. Works great for me.
bm98 15y ago
I'm surprised that there isn't more talk about Flash efficiency and its impact on global energy consumption and the environment. My desktop CPU burns an extra 50 watts when it is pegged at 100% (and in a typical day, Flash is the only thing that pegs my CPU for a prolonged period of time). Multiply that by hundreds of millions of computers running Flash -- many whose owners don't realize their CPUs are at 100% -- and it adds up to potentially millions of extra pounds of CO2 emissions every day.

Terretta 15y ago

> And secondly on my Xoom with 3.1 - Flash works great enough - no stutter or crashes. I have a new Xoom as well, latest everything, including the Flash update from 2 weeks ago. Flash video drops frames, stutters, freezes, and occasionally locks Browser up completely. On the other hand, native HTML 5 video tag plays gloriously.

blinkingled 15y ago
Where latest everything == OS version 3.1 and Flash version 10.3? In that case something else may be going on - can't get it to suck enough to bother me on my 3G Xoom.
- Terretta 15y ago
  Yes and yes, and that's all. Nothing else installed at all. I use it only for testing web video experiences.